A LOOK AT SOME OF KEITH CLIVE'S INITIAL LOVE BOMBS

Here are a few of Mr. Clive's first love bombs to this particular Target. If you go to yesterday's post you will see how over time his emails became more talkative and less romantic. He had the Target hooked - so it was just a matter of keeping her confused. Clive would have fully degraded and dumped her - like most Cyber-Narcissists pattern - had the Target not found out & gotten wise to him. And, Clive would have found a way to blame HER and make HER feel guilty for the demise of a relationship that only existed in cyberspace - like they all do. (he probably is blaming this and other Targets for what happened. Online Predators rarely take responsibility - even when confronted by law enforcement they will lie & blame-shift)

Shame on him for targetting a vulnerable woman who deserved so much better than an Online Predator who got his jollies mind-f*cking foreign women! - Fighter

(again embedded 'commands' and psychological triggers are in red)

Dear Target,

"You didn't tell me anything that you would tell me what do you feel... Not only about the things that I wrote about, but some your inner experiences or just something..."

I gave 1 reply to this. I don't know if my reply was what you had in mind. If not, please let me know, & I'll let you know after work when you're sound asleep. (so he can make up something else plausible to feed to you!)

Confession: you're the 1st "thing" I think about when I wake up & the last thing on my mind when I go to sleep [I have to say "thing" b/c if I say "person", that would imply that would imply that there are lots of other persons that come to mind right after, which is clearly NOT the case.]

Fondly,
Keith


My Dearest Target,

Where do I begin? Target, at the risk of losing you, I'm going to give it to you raw, unrehearsed, unedited, uncensored, & "let the chips fall where they may." Let me know if we've survived.

1st, let me tell you that I did NOT actively go to PPW in search of romance. (complete and total lie - you had a number of Targets there. Cyberpaths always protest their innocence. And if anyone catches them early on - a Predator will often turn on them like a petulant child, making them feel terrible & guilty for even questioning the Predator!) I was @ a point, as you may have been able to piece together, when there was nothing holding me back in my country.

Then, 1 day I had a few spare hrs, & I thought let me try this & see if I can get a TRUE local perspective NOT found in books, so that I can pick the ideal places to TESL. If by pure chance a romantic cnnxn was made along the way, then that would be merely icing on the cake. Even when I contacted you, I had no idea or intention of pursuing any romantic ideas. (sure you didn't!!)

But I'm 42yo & you're a Big Girl, married for X yrs & you have 2 lovely kids. I think we're too grown-up to use the "L-word" ["love"] when neither of us has met each other, much less "broken bread", or shared the trials & tribulations you & your husband have in bldg a life together, even if it's less than ideal. (then WHY do you continue to use the "L" word, Keith??)

But if I search my heart & honestly confront myself, I must confess, Target, that I could very easily, even instantly, fall in love w/ you. My feelings for you in this brief time are so strong. Even now, day-by-day, I'm falling for you, Target. (setting her up!!)

You said that you gave up the LoYL b/c 2 dreamers can't build a life. 1 has to be a rationalist/realist. I must warn you that I AM a DREAMER. (no you're psychotic and have no empathy) I've seen enough of life to know, that w/o dreams, you're only existing & not "living". You want to know the truth? I said "hypothetically speaking" only b/c I was afraid it would blow up in my face just like when I asked for a lock of your hair. But I was NOT speaking hypothetically. That IS what I feel, that IS what I desire, that IS what I day-dream about. The lock of your hair would've been a sentimental keepsake & I would hold & kiss the envelope now & then. Silly? Sentinemtal Romantic Fool? (lock of her hair! no you aren't a silly sentimental romantic fool.... you're a creepy wierdo looking for a trophy!!)

I feel this special bond, & the differences betw us combined w/ all that we have in common just draws me ever nearer to you & makes me long for you more and more. Would you believe me if I told you that already now, a HUGE!!! part of me [possibly almost all of me] feels that I want to be YOURS EXCLUSIVELY, just YOURS & nobody else's. Another part of me daydreams about waiting for your children to be fully grown 20 yrs from now & then seeing you in however limited fashion, even if only to gaze in your eyes once & hold your hands once. Already, I feel as if belong to you & that's exactly how I want it. I have no regrets about how you make me feel. I love how you make me feel & I don't know how you do it, but don't stop:-) (didn't he say he didn't want to use the L word, yet there it is!!)

There's more I wanted to say that was going through my mind, but now my mind is blank. But don't worry, I'll keep writing. If any of this makes you uncomfortable, let me know & I'll stop,(no you won't - she tried to stop you but you wouldn't let her) but try to find it in your heart to not end us. Thank you, Target. You still haven't told me how I should thank you for how you make me feel & being in my life.

With Hugs & Kisses,
Keith


My Beloved Target,

Please share w/ me what about the "participation" appealed to you? What in it was important to you or touched you the most? (is he talking about cybersex? eewwwww.....)

Re the "mixed-marriage" [BTW, I object to the use of that term, b/c a marriage is betw 2 people, & if they love each other & can get past the hurdles of lang & cultural diffs, then it shouldn't matter. It's also dishonest, b/c EVERY nation's ancestry is mixed w/ that of neighboring & even enemy nations.] What do you think? Is it better to "emphasize" 1 culture over the other? By that I do NOT mean COMPLETELY EXCLUDE, b/c that would be a lie, & the kids would pick up on that, too. If you do think that emphasizing 1 culture over another is the wiser course of action, do you believe it should be the mother's culture? Or, do you believe in your heart-of-heart that aiming/striving for a 50/50 balance is the best course of action? (Keith apparently has big psychological issues with his heritage - he brings it up a lot, says he thinks its bogus and dissects it, yet keeps jabbing at it...)

Finally, & MOST IMPORTANTLY, esp in light of what you told me about your country character/values, I think it would be tremendously important to engage in PDAs [Public Displays of Affection] (cute acronyms - ick) in the home in front of the children. Obviously nothing inappropriate, but constant tender kisses & warm embraces, kisses on your hands, "innocent"/"tasteful" [w/ in proper bounds] kisses on your arms, legs, back, neck, & yes, even feet. B/c children learn & about love & model it from their parents. If they see how much the parents love each other & are affectionate, then that's what they'll learn. Of course, the children would receive such PDAs from us. I hate to say it, Target, if your society is as uptight as my country was when I arrived 35yo, then it might mean a move to here [hypothetically] or Italy, b/c our kids would be made fun of & considered "weird" by other kids who wouldn't know how to respond w/ behavior so alien to their's. Even though our parents weren't big on PDAs, our parents were
considered too warm & too involved by "regular citizens white kids". (This Cyberpath has no boundaries or shame, does he? None of them ever do!)

Do you know how glad I am to have fallen in love w/ you, Target? So, this is how I find my "good girl":-) (read yesterday's post - at the bottom is a section on Narcissists on how they see women. Interesting he drops this in - in an email that starts with a possible reference to online sex. Predator.)

With Kisses All Over You & Hugs That Never Let Go,
Keith

KEITH CLIVE CONTINUES TO E-MAUL HIS TARGET!

Like most narcissistic cyberpaths, Keith doesn't allow his Target to 'come up for air.' Smothering her with 'love' (love bombing), when she asks for distance & time he tells her he's so 'in love' with her he can't do it (manipulative), he lives in a fantasy land with her, protests his sincerity and honesty, plants one NLP thought after another (see highlighted words in red) in this poor woman till she can't think straight.....

Get out your air sickness bag readers.... I haven't seen the 'golden keyboard (shovel)' used this much since our first Predator of the Month - Ed Hicks! - Fighter

8/05
My Beloved Target,

It's NOT obligation that I feel toward you. It's just a bond, that makes me long for you all the time & there's no escape from it, nor do I want escape from it. I want to be bound to you, to be yours.

But there's the reality &, yes, I might be forced to "get on w/ my life", & I'm glad that you eased my conscience in doing that if/whenever that happens. Of course, I'd keep in touch, & even then I'd still like to visit you @ least once, unless some TESL opp in your hometown drops in my lap:-) Remember, I want to know you lifelong.

For each tear my words have brought to your eyes, please take 3 kisses from me. Every time you see your feet & even, somehow, the back of your knee, take some more kisses there from someone unworthy of it, My Love.

With Such Longing,
Keith


9/05
BTW, when I said "I think I mentioned [ my job]", I did NOT answer that w/ any impatience. I was merely confirming. Generally I work a 12-21:00 shift, but sometimes it 8-16:30, or 8-18:00.

My basic education? It's "all over the map". I must confess that I have NOT completed my Bachelor's degree, which I'm trying to complete now. Which reminds me that I will have to cut back on some of our e-mails b/c in pursuing that degree, I have to complete an "[XYZ] Diploma". I don't even have my driver's license. That's how much of a dreamer I am. Although, since [my city] has 1 of the best public transit systems in the entire planet, it's often unnecessary. I imagine in your small town, a car is essential.

The "Diploma" is a step below a "Degree". [Remember the discussion that completely confused you?] When crossing borders, nations look for "degrees" generally. Athough Aust might not care, but for ex, Japan & S. Korea [2 of the biggest TESL mrkts], won't give ANY work authorizations unless you submit proof of a degree. Others will accept just the CELTA.

I also have 7 securities [stocks, bonds, mutual funds, options, futures, etc] licenses [now expired].

Although, I'd love to spend the entire day e-mailing you or, better yet, in your arms gazing into each others eyes, talking, & spending time w/ the kids, bills have to be paid & the only way I can complete the diploma, & eventually the degree, is to spend LESS time on the e-mails & more time on the diploma. It's a Qn of "tradeoffs" do we make the dream a reality, or continue dreaming a never-to-be-fulfilled dream? Pls, do NOT in ANY way take this to mean that you've been the 1 keeping me from my goals & priorities. I've enjoyed EVERY moment & thought & emotion spent on you, Target. I just didn't want you to get the impression, "Oh, another online romancer. Once matters got serious, he starts to run away." (notice how Keith, like all them - protests in his own words - that he is 'sincere, honest, not lying, etc' - only liars protest that they don't lie!)

With Hugs & Kisses All Over You,
Your Keith (as if he's property worth having)

9/05
My Beloved Target,

It feels so good to have heard your voice, so warm, so girlish, so tender, so affectionate; the girlish giggle in it. You don't know how many times I wanted to call right back after I hung up. No, really I did. I'm not just saying that to "sweet talk you". As I'd said, it's the voice I'd want to wake up to, come home to, & the last sweet melody I'd want to hear before I close my eyes.

Many times I think about the 2 of us & I think that I don't care about the consequences, that this is 1 life & I should put all my effort into making this a reality no matter what. Indeed, if there were no kids involved, I think I would still do that. It's not that I'm afraid of the responsibility of children, but there'd be an emotional impact/toll on the kids, which would be taken out on you, & eventually on "us". So, that has to be considered.

I'm glad that you're still slightly more optimistic than I am. It might surprise you, though, that I do NOT consider our situation "hopeless" as you'd termed it [as much as it appears to be].

But I do know the ways of the world, & I'm NOT comfortable taking on such high risks that only 2 single people should be taking much less a married woman even if she had no children. What makes me particularly uneasy as I said in our IMs is my legal status, or rather my lack of it in your country. Even before you mentioned it, I knew that you'd never be happy being anything other than what you are. For all your unhappiness in your current situation, in many, many, many ways, you're better of in it than w/ me. That's REALITY whether I like it or not.

The other difficulty [as mentioned] is that even @ this late age of mine, I don't have a cent/penny in savings. (predator throws in some honesty to make it all more valid) In retrospect, I should've taken the conventional route in life & merely saved my low wages rather than try to launch a biz. But what's done cannot be undone & we have to work w/ the present & the cards that are in our hand now. Wishing won't make it better.

For BOTH of us certainly, but even just 1 person, it's so dangerous not to have a fncl cushion. In your country I had have no resources, no family, no linguistic ability, no immediately saleable skills b/cof the lack of your lang fluency other than TESL. Is it really possible for 2 persons there, EACH earning 5 Euros/hr to raise 2 children? How much to raise 3?

More later.

Still In Love With You,
Your Keith

9/05
My Most Beloved Target,
Dearest Keeper of My Heart,

In what follows, I'm speaking ENTIRELY for MYSELF, even if you do NOT share even 1 part of it:

You know it's funny. Because it all happened so fast & in such little time, and w/ all the obstacles, & w/ common sense, logic, & reality staring us in the face, when you said that you needed some time alone, I did NOT think I'd miss you that much or that soon. (nor did this manipulative cyberpath want a good Target to have a chance to think or realize he was full of it!! When they don't give you space - that's a major red flag)

When in that IM wherein you suggested MY meeting someone else, a part of me was hurt & another part of me said that this was a better opp for BOTH of us [YOU and I].

Part of me said never to write this. Or, to write it but never send it. Part of me said that this is best for both of us, & I should move on. I recognized that there are far easier rltshps [NONE current] to pursue in this world, esp w/ someone who's completely single & w/o any kids, esp for a guy like myself w/ PP/residency/ctzshp issues AND no $$$. I'm still trying very hard to listen to that part. Who knows, as time passes, I might be FORCED to listen to that part. (but you're a narcissist and they like it complicated, right?)

All day Saturday after I got off the ph w/ you, I pretty much just sat in front of the PC waiting for you to come online or send an e-mail. Once in a while, I'd write some things like what you're reading now. Other times, I'd sit on my bed & think of you. The only "productive" thing I did Sat was a bit of ironing. Even that allowed plenty of time to keep thinking of you. For the entire day, I'd eaten only 2 croissants. I'd lost almost my entire appetite. I didn't want to cook. Actually, I think it might now be 2 whole wks that I haven't cooked. I'd been surviving on "snacks" & a soups I'd buy @ lunch time. I daydreamed often of all 3 of us sitting on a couch/sofa together playfully, w/ either your legs in my lap, or your head in my lap & I'd run my fingers through your hair. Then you finally came online & made your request.

The very next day after that 1st IM requesting some time off, I was surprised by the sense of "loss" and how much I missed you. It's true, you don't know what you have until you've lost it. Of course, that's NOT a lesson I learned just now @ 42. I was struck/surprised by just how deep my feelings, yes, my "love", for you ran, Target. (guilt tripping!!!) I have to confess to you, that before you asked for this time off, as my feelings for you grew stronger & stronger, esp after it was out in the open, I decided to put them to the test. I tried looking at other women. (but would they even bother to look at you, sir?)

1st let me step back a bit & explain my unorthodox perspective. You might actually be disappointed, but I want you to appreciate the whole truth. Shortly before meeting you, I'd discovered that only my ex-girlfriend & I shared this perspective, but then again, most of my colleagues are in their naïve 20s. She & I think that there's absolutely nothing wrong w/ looking @ others [of the opposite sex]. Often when we'd walk down the streets or go for a walk in the park, I'd point out BOTH really good-looking MEN & women to her & what about them was beautiful. She'd do the same. I wasn't jealous & neither was she. For us, it was also mere appreciation of beauty [male or female] on a rely esthetic/artistic level. I can appreciate BOTH male & female beauty. If a guy's good looking, I point it out. Also, we're both human. Can I realistically expect that I'm the only attractive man she'll ever see on this planet? Acting on what we saw, meaning pursuing a rltshp w/ someone else, of course, is another matter. (Get to the point, stop the word salad!!! Blah blah blah....)

My perspective [& my ex-girlfriend's] is that if you see someone you'd rather be with, then go. Of course, the person who's abandoned will feel heartbroken, but it only delays the inevitable. Even if the person remains completely loyal & their heart lies elsewhere, what's the point of keeping your bird caged? The distance, coldness, & emptiness will only grow. Or, to make another analogy, just b/c I see smth in a shop window that I like doesn't mean that I'm going to buy it. (ok we GOT it - can we please speak PLAINLY!!)

So, yes, I looked at other women during all this time I knew you, & even the day after you asked for time off the 1st time. Although there were many attractive women, I wasn't attracted to any of them. There just wasn't that "feeling" & that sense of "connection" that I have with you. And, I don't mean that just from the common sense perspective that I saw them but didn't get to really know them. After all, TODAY if I want, I can call up my ex-girlfriend or the woman I was involved w/ for a mth and begin a life w/ them. It was particularly my 1-mth rltshp (another Target got wise or is this an imaginary girlfriend?) that proved not to settle for someone I don't feel connected to no matter how much else she has to offer [& she has a lot to offer otherwise].

I even did a quick search on PPW, even in your country, & there really was no one of any interest or that I hadn't already tried to contact before when I 1st signed on to PPW. Fortunately, almost no one returned my replies back then, b/c we've both discovered how much time even just 1 Pen Pal can take. (of course let's bet he had a few going at the time) There's 1 completely shallow German chick who, understandably, stopped writing after I didn't have the time to write to her anymore. I'll still keep in touch w/ her, b/c she has a good heart & is a good person, but we have less than ZERO in common. All she likes to do is send jokes. She simply lives & never thinks. Often, I think I would've been better off living life that way. I even went back to your PPW profile & it struck me even more that there was no reason for me to write to you. It was all based on an intuitive feel, & thus I think there's something more. (Keith smelled good Target!!! not a friend, who needs friends when you can toy with women's heads?)

I was so tempted to write the Yahoo acct each day, or several times a day, to share every thought & feeling as it occurred, but thought to myself, "No, give her time, give her space. It's best for BOTH of us. If it's meant to be, the feelings will survive even several years' separation. If it doesn't survive a few days, then it was just an online infatuation & our feelings simply got ahead of ourselves." That's what I thought. I forced, myself to think of myself as a "free man" & to look @ potential rltshps [again, NOTHING current], to look @ it as an opp to find smth w/ far fewer obstacles & much less risk. (but you just couldn't leave her alone could you?)

Quite honestly, I thought you'd [rightly] take some days "off" to think it through. Strangely, I felt both separated AND more yours than ever. I long more for you now. And, long even more for you after talking to you that 2nd time. Your girlish voice doesn't match your womanly photo. So, I suspect there's a little girl still trapped inside the grown-up woman's body, just dying to get out & be herself again. (well DUH - you can say that to most vulnerable, hurt women can't you??)

I can't believe how much I miss you, Target. Yesterday [Mon], I went to the Ukr Festival w/ my friend, Ivan. It was right beside the lake, w/ perfect weather to make a perfect day. Being there, and seeing all those families and young & not-so-young couples there, I kept thinking of you minute-by-minute. My mind didn't know 1 moment's peace from you, nor did I want any. My mind & heart was as restless as a caged animal. I thought to myself, "Yeah, this is what I want: a life with her." I realized then just how much I'd truly become "yours", Target; how much I belonged to you. More than ever I wanted to marry you, to love you, to look after you, to devote myselft to you & your happiness. I know I'd rather be a janitor married to you in your country than an ESL teachr w/o you in Cda. I saw a wedding band [ring] on someone & thought back to some of your last words to me: "No matter what happens, there'll always be that bond." (use her own words on her - nice touch but predator speak)

In Engl, band & bond [incl an "oath" or promise] are often synonymous. A bond is a guarantee backed by assets that can be seized in case the 1 who issued the bond defaults on payment of the bond. Some people, & even some businesses, might say "Our word is our bond."

Thinking of your words & thinking [all this time w/ Ivan] of the symbolism of the wedding band: it's the circle of infinity, & it has no beginning, no middle, no end. It struck me during the 2 ph calls, but esp after the 1st mins of the 1st call, & ALL of the 2nd call, that we were talking like a couple that had been married 20 yrs. I felt like I'd known you my entire life. I didn't need to introduce myself, or even introduce or explain what I had to say. I could just say it & I'd know that you'd know what I was talking about. Before even the 1st e-mails via PPW, we'd had our beginnning, who knows where that middle is, & I know we have no end. I will kiss you. (Keith is just all over the romance map, isn't he?)

Kisses All Over You From Head-to-Toe,
Your Keith

9/05
My Most Beloved Target,

Even before I met you, for about 3 mths after the 1-mth rltshp [Other Target] where I learned a lot about rltshps AND even more about myself, I had to come up w/ an explanation in my mind as to why NOT her. Certainly, I had to come up w/ 1 for her, to justify it to her. (red flag - talking poorly about other women)

I told her the truth but had to be gentle & diplomatic. She's a wonderful woman, making me the best offer any woman had made me up until that time. From a "practical" standpoint, it's still a tempting offer. An even-tempered woman w/ whom I can get along w/ & who's not going to bother me &, generally, leave me alone to work on my projects & goals. It's hard to find. Plus, we BOTH love to cook. Well, maybe not doing the dishes after:-) Even then, generally, I don't trust anyone else to do the dishes but me or an electric dishwasher. (stay on track Keith.... you can bet anyone who is off on this many tangents, lives their lives on tangents and has MORE Targets)

I obviously couldn't tell her the whole truth b/c that would quite understandably hurt her. She was offering me her whole heart & I don't take that "lightly". It's humbling. But I struggled & still struggle to come up w/ an explanation that is neither insulting/hurtful nor is it "limiting". The 1st words I would use to describe "why NOT her" would APPEAR/SEEM to point to intellect & intelligence [she has it to a certain extent], but it's NOT about that. (yes it is. Its all about Keith's judgement calls and a woman's WORTHINESS to be with the great Keith!)

It's about "that connection". Even before she'd held my hand & kissed me, I knew that she wasn't "the one", even though we "sizzled" on a purely [for me] physical level. But although the kisses had some passion, I knew it was NOTHING like the 1s I had w/ the former Love of My Life. Those kisses were beyond physical. In fact, I would melt instantly into her & collapse when our lips barely met, or just touched. That's because of "that connection". (remember in Lures of the Online Predator? "appear to be an object of desire" and "create triangles" so the Target will try to get you even harder!! The chaser becomes the chased.)

Also, w/ Other Target, an entire universe inside me could NOT be shared w/ her. Again, it APPEARS to relate to intellect but, it's NOT about that. 1 example is 1 book [about diet/nutrition] & 1 certain kind of music that I recently shared w/ a co-worker in her 20s. I'm NOT romantically interested in her, but I know that I could NEVER share it w/ Other Target. She'd have no interest in such matters. And, eventually, understandably she'd have needs that I knew I couldn't fulfill, esp the more & more I share less & less. I could only share a small part of me.

No rltshp is "perfect" but, Target, I could share ANYhing with you. There's no part of myself that I'd have to keep, hide, or guard from you. (NLP - so be sure to share everything with me so I can continue to profile you!) It's another reason I've bluntly told you my position on many things & used foul language that I'd normally never use; language that I don't even use privately [generally]. I FEEL "that connection" with you every day, every moment. It's another reason I'd never want to lose you.

With All My Heart,
YOUR Keith

9/05
1st: I'd love to meet your family. Truly.

2nd: The Ind & 3rd World tradition is large extended families. In India, they even live in the same household. Even the 1s who don't live there can drop by ANY time unannounced, even @ 3:00am & you MUST welcome them w/ open arms & plenty of food. Obviously, although I maintain an "open door" policy "in principle", I've been Westernized enough to know how much of an imposition [pain in the ass] this Ind/3rd World tradition this can be.

3rd:my ex-girlfriend & her family [in case you didn't guess] are Ital. I grew up in Ital neighborhoods. Even the very 1st yr we came to this country, we lived in the top flat of an Ital home. They lived in the basement. They even taught my mom how to make pasta & sauce from scratch. I always thought I'd marry an Ital girl. I studied Ital a full decade BEFORE I met my ex-girlfriend. I always looked FWD to marrying into a large Ital family & their gregarious/extroverted ways & tables overflowing w/ food.

And then, I met my ex-girlfriend's family & their monster-sized ego (too much competition for your colossal ego, Keith?), esp her a**h*le father's. That was the end of the love affair w/ everything Ital for me. I knew all along what were many of Itals' worst traits, & it was my ill luck that the family I came across had a truck load of it. Her a**h*le father had certain a**-kissing expectations I simply was NOT prepared to fulfill. She begged, pleaded, cajoled & I begrudgingly submitted to them. I told her, "[my ex-girlfriend], don't do this. Your father's a bully & this is only a recipe for disaster. (like usually KNOWS like. And children tend to date/marry what they KNOW. Let's bet Keith & his ex's father had a lot in common!). There's only 1 way to deal w/ a bully." She didn't listen & now [as I've said so many times before], everything I predicted came to pass & she sees that I was right about her a**h*le father. (yes, the only way to deal with a bully is to get as far away from them as you possibly can - like you are NOT allowing this Target to do.)

As I'd said before, in 1 evening I had more of a conversation w/ her father's best friend than I had in the 2 yrs [3?] that I'd known her a**h*le father. So, it wasn't I who was the problem. That friend of his, even recommended me to my ex-girlfriend's father as the ideal man for my ex-girlfriend. He even invited me over to his place & one time offered to intercede on my behalf when I once broke it off w/ her & to bridge both my ex-girlfriend & her father. He was a good man. If you're good to me, I'm good to you. You may not need me as a friend, but you never want me as your enemy. (why is he saying this? To keep the Target from ever exposing him when she finds out he played her?)

Even my ex-girlfriend's married sister has INSISTED that her parents call & arrange time in advance BEFORE coming by. They cannot just drop by, even though they're a 10-min drive away.

So, yes, I'd love to meet them, I'd love to have them drop by often if they/you wish. But if they start to become a pain in the ass or interfere, gossip, meddle, that is NOT acceptable. That is where I prefer British good manners & good fences. (Suuuurrre you do... LOL)

9/05
You understood all of it correctly. It's just been my experience that you have to be VERY CAREFUL & SELECTIVE about whom you invite into the couple's circle, AND maintain an effective barrier so that others don't begin interfering, gossiping, meddling.

Of course, in the best of such times/occassion, I DO believe that "the more the merrier". When we'd go to the movies, the zoo, etc., esp when a friend was going thru a "dateless" period, or a new immigrant who had no friends, it would be I who'd ensure that others weren't left out. But when you become careless & the quantity of friends exceeds the quality, it can only spell disaster.

I also agree that if you can't get along w/ a reasonable # of HER friends & vice versa, that there'd be trouble. Of course, you'll never get along w/ EVERYONE. Even my best friend, M, is always singing the praises of 1 his friends, & I absolutely abhor even the mere sight of the woman. Aside from having many annoying qualities, she's rich & spoke so disparagingly of the poor & homeless & what an inconvenience they are to her & an eyesore to her & my city.

No, I don't think that couples become prisoners of 1 another & that the only person you'll ever need to talk to is me. Mind you, I rarely have a need to talk to anyone, esp anyone other than that someone special. It's 1 of many reasons why I new it'd never work w/ Other Target b/c, as I'd said before, there'd be an entire universe of both "external" things & things even @ the "soul" level I'd never be able to share w/ her.

Hope this clarifies things. (yes, that at your core you are a controlling judgmental person who projects these traits on to anyone who calls you out for what you really are)

9/05
1)Thanks for the photos:>) It's good to see that your children can smile:>)

2)Thanks for the True Colors reminder. I've deliberately left it unread so that it'll be a constant reminder.

3)I agree that there are some bridges that we should cross when we come to them. What I meant about "getting our stories straight" is that it's the nature of people to gossip about couples & that what the ppl doing the talking have is "true love", & the ppl they're talking about is anything but true love. (nice explanation.... hahaha....)

1 of my so-called friends used to tell me all about his rltshps in minute detail. I had always kept this side of my life as secret as possible. I made an exception 2X & regretted it BOTH times.

1st time, I took the chance about telling him about some girl I'd known that summer, how madly in love w/ her I was [& I really was], & how she broke my heart. That evening I left feeling good about this new level of exper for me. A couple of days later thru another mutual friend I found out that my so-called "best friend" dismissively said, "I think it was the 1st time Keith fell in LUST." I was enraged but said nothing. (because he was right?)

2nd time, it was the same "friend" but it involved my ex-girlfriend. I took a chance & introduced him to her. Before doing so, I swore him to absolute secrecy & that my family must never find out. [If you want, I can tell you later why.] He'd known me for 20 yrs. He must have looked & me & looked @ her & said, "OK, Keith must have his own very good reasons for wanting to keep this private." 2 mths later my MOM relayed VERBATIM [literally word-for-word] in the exact same synatax/order/sequence the entire conversation the 3 of us had. I knew the source. (see quote at end of this post for the love/hate relationship many cyberpaths have with a parent, often their mother)

3rd Ex, after the 1st yr "honeymoon" period, my ex-girlfriend said, "I think we need to expand our social circle & hang out as grps on some occasions, & not just as an exclusive couple." I said, that that should be kept to a minimum, for special occasions like B-days, anniversaries, etc. Of course, there can be exceptions for even casual events. I told her that expanding the social circle is highly overrated. That once 2 ppl have found each other, they really only need each other & that other ppl added to the mix will end up gossipping, interfering, meddling, etc. But I humored/indulged her. So, for about 6 mths I made sure that it was ALWAYS a grp activity to the point that she was begging to go out as just the 2 of us. Later, as her family & certain "friends" disappointed her more & more or that family became sources of interference & "raining on her parade", she realized what I'd meant. (because no one is good enough for Keith and he's scared they will all see what a manipulator he really is)

Similarly, in "our" case if ppl found out that we met on the Net, they'd privately think to themselves "Oh, they're 1 of THOSE. It's NOT the real thing. She left her husband for THAT." Even YOU had gone to considerable pains to explain to me all your reasons for pursuing the annulment completely independent of me. No one will really know & appreciate the truth except the 2 of us. The less others know, the better.

Finally, 1 note related to the whole "privacy" thing. In the 1st yr of my rltshp w/ my ex-girlfriend, as a 40th B-day I took her for a 4-day wknd to [a city]. What a gorgeous city! I took @ least a 100 photographs. My family suspected that someone was in my life but was NOT etting any details from me. 1 day I discovered that my Mom had gone thru EVERY photo that I'd hidden NOT too well. Well, there weren't any "naughty" photos or anything like that. But again, I was enraged @ this invasion of privacy [I'm a 40yo adult]. 1 of the things that enraged me was that 1 of the most special & cherished memories I had was the 2 of us standing next to a beautiful fountain w/ [I think?] the [city's] River & [official] Bldgs in the background. That's all that was in that particular photo. But it was smth that I wanted to share w/ no one else & keep entirely to myself. Now, that precious memory was violated & lost it's "specialness". Pls do NOT say that it's still there & still mine. It was up to ME to decide w/ whom to share it, NOT her. (Keith is not a good sharer!)

Even from an immigration standpoint [whether you come here, or I go there], we'd need to get our stories straight. (aka telling the same LIES!)

9/05
Target,

Why keep my ex-girlfriend or any other woman a secret? Lots of reasons. (first, I am a lying online-predator who wants no one to find out how I treat the Targets I get online and what a loser I am. If love is real? Excuse me but you want to TELL THE WORLD!)

I already mentioned the gossiping, meddling, interfering, etc. These things drive me crazy & can create tremendous headaches for couples. There's enough to deal w/ in life. The last thing you need is to deal w/ smbdy ELSE's problems & "hangups"/issues. I don't have the time, energy, or the patience. I simply cut these ppl out of my life, in some cases FOREVER. (because I have no real empathy for anyone but myself and no real connections in life - so cutting someone off is very simple for me)

There's of course the betrayals of trust, which I think has now been amply explained. (oxymoron coming from him!!)

But the other reason is that most of these so-called friends,& even my family, have no genuine interest in what makes you happy. B/c this was such a secret side to my life, it was more a CURIOSITY factor, & putting me & my private life under a microscope. Sorry, no time for that. (if he really believes that? he's a sad sad man. The truth is he feels no geniune interest in what makes anyone happy except himself)

Overall, for all their faults, I'd say my family's better than my ex-girlfriend's. Nevertheless, like my ex-girlfriend's family, although they mean well, it's best if they're kept OUT of this side of my life w/ a moat, IRON gates, 2m-thick brick walls, & RAZOR wire [NOT just mere "barbed" wire]. The more involved they are, the more trouble they are.

My family can be "toxic". Behind her back they'd find things to criticize about her: she's old & fat. my ex-girlfriend's NOT fat. She's certainly not pencil-thin, but looks a lot like the average 45yo woman of European descent. & actually, in her own ways she has a girlish "Pixie" cute appearance. She's quite child-like. Child-like is a POSITIVE quality, whereas "childish" is NEGATIVE. She rightly calls herself a "kidult" [kid+adult]. For me to hurt her, or for anyone else to hurt her would be like hurting my own daughter.

Then there are the little things, jokes & teasing about the rltshp, sex, intimate things, etc, which I really do NOT like when it's specific to any couple. If it's a general joke, then I can have a sense of humor about it. (of course not, because you are a cyber-narcissist and live a closed life so no one figures you out)

Another is that decades ago, I'd learned that I could NOT share this side of my life w/ anyone in my family. A minor ex will illustrate. There was a bank teller @ the local bank whom I thought was "stunning". She had this unusual "hairline" [where the hair begins & ends] that almost no one normally has. The way it looked, MOST ppl would find it UNattractive. I thought it made her so much more interesting, attractive, even sexier. Then 1 day, I heard my mom & sister making fun of this girl & the very thing [the hairline] that I liked most.

Roughly about the same time, my friend [who betrayed the my ex-girlfriend secret much later] was dating someone he had initially tried to set me up w/. He's Jewish, she's Ind. I remind you that my 1st love @ age 19 was Pakistani, so I have NO issues re Indo-Pak women. I certainly CAN find them attractive. (you have plenty of issues, Keith - like your Mother is Indian!) They were over once for a get-together [possibly my 30th B-day] & my Mom was simply elated to co-mingle w/ this Ind girl. Yes, I know that's a natural human response. When my Mom had a private moment w/ me, she said, "Why don't you bring home someone like that." I merely smiled politely & shrugged.

Well, although she's for the most part a sweet girl [other than being an insufferable gossip-hound] all the classic Ind traits in her that my Mom finds endearing & ideal are the 1s that I find utterly loathsome: petite, fine-boned, bone-thin; fine, delicate features; soft-spoken, demure, acquiescing, submissive, simple, quiet, ultra-feminine, etc.

It was obvious that what made my mom happy would make me utterly miserable, & vice versa. So, what was I going to do? Marry some chick just to make my mom happy [as too many Ind boys & girls do]? Since my Mom would have no interest in sharing what makes ME happy, then I decided I would always keep this side PRIVATE.

I told my ex-girlfriend early on that if we got involved, & certainly if we were to marry, that she could NOT meet my family. Quite understandably, she was worried & suspicious. What was I trying to hide? We argued over this. As she got to know me & got to know about my family, & @ the same time HER own family became more hostile toward me, she accepted my decision & saw the wisdom in it. I conceded that it was NOT what either of us had in mind. BOTH of us, ideally, would've wanted 2 harmonious families & a big wedding. Well, I wanted the big Ital wedding. She wanted a small 1.

Finally, through some minor events, she did briefly meet my parents & they were all quite decent toward her. But they still make disparaging remarks about anyone that would fit my ex-girlfriend's description.

Hope this long-winded answer answers your Qn. (remember the post on this site about how online cheaters & internet liars use MORE words and 'talk' more about more subjects? Notice how as we go along in these emails, and as the Target was probably QUESTIONING him more - he got wordier & wordier.This is enough to make anyone's head hurt!)

Regards,
K

10/05
Dear Target,

I understand your confusion. I'm feeling terrible like 1 of those online romancers. (LOL - because you ARE!!!)

You clarified the reasons for your guilt & I'm certain in YOUR mind that your reason is more valid or noble than mine. I won't insult you by bothering to debate that point. But I think it is important to let you know that from MY viewpoint vows or promises made to my fellow-man are of greater importance than vows to God. (and now he's going to 'debate' them anyway but just CALL it something else) So, NO, I do NOT think any less of you. It's not as if you're abandoning a good husband & a great marriage. In either case, for both of us, even if for different reasons, we're prisoners of our respective consciences. Not that it helps, but the 1 positive in this even from YOUR standpoint is that I DO have a conscience that pricks me. Your concern/worry was always what if I stopped feeling the same way AFTER marriage: would I divorce you just like that @ the snap of a finger.

Even at the peak of my rltshp w/ the girl in school AFTER my Nov 2003 breakup w/ my ex-girlfriend, my ex-girlfriend still refused to accept my decision. That might make her sound like a nut, but she isn't.

I'm NOT going to try to make her sound evil, but she did so much to drive a wedge betw the strong feelings I had for during the 1st 2 yrs I knew her & the gradual & steady erosion/downhill slide over the next 2 yrs of those feelings as she put me DEAD LAST on her list of priorities. There are lots of other things I won't go into. (oh come on Keith!! Please tell!!! )

But no matter how bad it got, she continued to help me out during my times of health &/or financial distress that's a large contributor to feelings of guilt & obligation toward her. Even if she didn't there's her child-like qualities that I mentioned so many times. Honestly, do I have feelings of passion for her or envision myself spending the rest of my life w/ her? NO. Do I feel guilty contemplating a life w/o her even BEFORE I met you? Absolutely. (WHAT DID HE SAY????? HUH???? remember he is talking to someone who's first language is NOT English!)

Even if I did NOT meet you, I was planning on having another talk w/ her around X-mas time, which is usually when she would get together w/ me. No, I'm NOT "trying to have my cake & eat it too." Meaning, someone who wants it both ways w/o paying any price. If that were the case I can literally marry my ex-girlfriend tomorrow.

The best thing really to spare both your feelings & mine from further & greater pain is for me to continue playing "designated driver". As I've stressed all along, even though I've fallen/failed many times, it's too easy for our feelings to run ahead of ourselves. (MANIPULATIVE AND WANTS IT THAT WAY!!)

If you'd rather forget about it completely & jsut remain friends, I'd understand. This pain will hurt much less than the greater pain. (but Keith won't let her be friends, he's got her on his hook!)

Most Sincerely,
Keith

10/05
Dear Target,

[This should NOT be handled via e-mail & I'll talk to you via Skype this wk, but for now.....]

I read ALL of your e-mail. The points you make are well-taken. You have advised me well, esp re my ex-girlfriend, my happiness, my having children.

I agree that we certainly cannot continue to ride an emotional rollercoaster every day. It's not fair to you. (but I am going to make you, anyway)

The truth is that I allowed my emotions to get ahead of myself & completely forget the "Fool's Paradise" I'm living in. By next summer, my Sis might have a place of her own MINUS me. What do I do then? I still have not been able to save even a cent toward the CELTA & am always 1.5 mths behind on my phone bill. So, how would I save for 1st & last mth's rent for a place of my own? These are the harsh realities.

I'll still genuinely help you find work in [my country]. You can still count on that. Still, I have NO right to invite you to live, even if only for 1-3 wks, in my Fool's Paradise. You'll soon be a divorced woman & have an ENORMOUS financial rspblty toward your children. The last thing you can afford to do is to blow 700 Euros [800 after the usual unforeseen expenses] on me of all things/people. That's a LOT of money that you just cannot afford to squander. EVERY penny will count once you're completely on your own as a divorcee. I have to be responsible, I have to tell you that. (does he remember his other emails to her??) Really, the best way to pursue all this is for me to save up $ some time over the next 3 yrs & visit you & look @ the 2 of us then. You should come to my country ONLY IF you've been made a great offer that will enable you to raise your children on your own here. Your 1st priority is NOT me, or even you, but your children.

I'm going to be an adult & take responsibility for MY actions & NOT blame YOU. (Backwards talk!!) I appreciate your patience & understanding in trying to give me time to work on my stuff. (since you gave HER none?) Even though I hardly write to you as much as I did initially, mentally & emotionally you still occupy so much of myself, my energy & my time. I really need to get back to "friends-only" to free my mind.

If I remove myself from my Fool's Paradise, the only time I should be considering romance, love, marriage, children, & my happiness is once I've got my act together. If that means I'm 50yo & have to marry some 30-35yo or pay some surrogate mom 10,000 Euros then perhaps that's what I have to do.

The pain & distress I'm causing you is unforgiveable. (that's right - now turn off your computer and get a life and leave foreign women ALONE!) I do NOT seek or beg your forgiveness. But I do owe you the truth & this I have given you now. If we're meant to be, there'll be plenty of time for that & things will just fall into place. Think of your children.

Most Sincerely,
Keith

Excerpts from Narcissists & Women:

Moreover, many narcissists tend to FRUSTRATE women. They refrain from having sex with them, tease them and then leave them, resist the flirtatious and seductive behaviors of females and so on. Often, they invoke the existence of a girlfriend/fiancée/spouse (or boyfriend/etc. – male and female are interchangeable in my texts) as the "reason" why they cannot have sex or develop a relationship. But this is not out of loyalty and fidelity in the empathic and loving sense. This is because they wish (and often succeed) to sadistically frustrate the interested party.

The narcissist's attitude to women is, naturally, complex and multi-layered but it revolves around four axes:

1. The Holy Whore
2. The Hunter Parasite
3. The Frustrating Object of Desire
4. Uniqueness Roles

The narcissist believes firmly that women are out to "hunt" men and that this is almost a genetic predisposition. As a result, he feels threatened (as any prey would). This, of course, is an intellectualization of the real, absolutely opposite, state of things: the narcissist feels threatened by women and tries to justify this irrational fear by imbuing women with "objective" qualities which make them, to his mind, ominous.

Heterosexual narcissists desire women as any other red-blooded male does (even more so due to the special symbolic nature of the woman in the narcissist's life – humbling a woman in acts of faintly sadomasochistic sex is a way of getting back at mother).

Thus, the narcissist is led to believe that women are the continuation, by other means and in different guises, of his mother - this early robber of his uniqueness.

Psychodynamically, the Narcissist probably visits upon them his mother's sins - but such an instant explanation does the subject great injustice.

Most narcissists are misogynists. Their sexual and emotional lives are perturbed and chaotic. They are unable to love in any true sense of the word - nor are they capable of developing any measure of intimacy. Lacking empathy, they are unable to offer to the partner emotional sustenance.

Narcissists are angry men - but not because they never experienced love and probably never will. They are angry because they are not as powerful, awe inspiring and successful as they wish they were and, to their mind, deserve to be. Because their daydreams refuse so stubbornly to come true. Because they are their worst enemy. And because, in their unmitigated paranoia, they see adversaries plotting everywhere and feel discriminated against and contemptuously ignored. They are most terrified of boredom and whenever faced with its daunting prospect, they inject drama, or even danger, into their lives. This is the only way they feel alive.

The narcissist is a lonely wolf. He is a shaky platform, indeed, on which to found a family.

CLICK HERE FOR ORIGINAL ARTICLE

KEITH CLIVE..... KING OF THE BIZARRE EMAILS

Here's yet another very bizarre email from Keith P. Clive to one of his Targets. This sounds like something a middle school girl would write, doesn't it? It's Bizarre! I think like many cyberpaths, Clive's elevator doesn't reach the top floor.... Fighter

BTW, what's your maiden name?

We're getting ahead of ourselves when we need to slow down & get a "reality check", but I just wanted you to know that I'm NOT 1 of those macho guys who insists on the wife dropping her maiden name. You may keep it. Likewise, [your children] could keep their father's surname.

Also, in [my area], the way the marriage certificate works, you can use ANY combination of the 2 legal names. So, if your surname were "Smith", you could have the following combinations:

Target Smith & Keith Clive
Target Clive & Keith Clive
Target Smith & Keith Smith
Target Smith-Clive & Keith Clive
Target Smith-Clive & Keith Smith-Clive
Target Clive-Smith & Keith Clive-Smith

Ans, since I'm NOT attached to my British colonial surname [therefore it's rather artificial in MY eyes], I could see myself adopting YOUR maiden surname. If I knew the actual ancestral surname, I would keep that.


I do know that MOST [religion of Target] countries are quite strict about surnames & have ridiculous legal hurdles when it comes to name changes, even name usage. In NA & pretty much throughout the Protestant Anglophone world, you can use any name you want, even when checking into a hotel, as long as you do NOT commit fraud.


Commit fraud? checking into a hotel? HUH?? Keith, your home planet needs you back. Readers - we can NOT make this stuff up! Keith please get into psychiatric counseling immediately. - Fighter

KEITH CLIVE.... YOUR VILLAGE IS CALLING!

KEITH CLIVE

This guy never stops. The romantic letters look they're written by a teenage boy not a 42 year old man. But of course a foreign woman for whom English is a second language wouldn't know that !!- and THAT's why he targets them. Additionally, they are so far away he hopes they won't find out he's a liar and emotional rapist. - Fighter


My Most Beloved [Target],
Dearest Keeper of My Heart,

I don't know whom else to thank for your coming into my life, letting me into your, heart & for allowing me to fall in love with you. These words might make you think that I'm "blaming" you, but I'm NOT. There just aren't any better words to express what I mean.

I take full responsibility for where my heart led me. I'm just glad it led me to you. Even with all the obstacles in our path for now, I'm overjoed to have so deeply fallen in love (huh? How is that possible? you never MET her!) with you. I have absolutely no regrets. Even if there is a God, I can hold my head up & say I had no regrets because it was for love.

Indebted Forever to You,
Keith

WEB SURFING WORKER CAN'T BE FIRED

Judge: Web-Surfing Worker Can't Be Fired

Saying surfing the web is equivalent to reading a newspaper or talking on the phone, an administrative law judge has suggested that only a reprimand is appropriate as punishment for a city worker accused of failing to heed warnings to stay off the Internet.

Administrative Law Judge John Spooner reached his decision in the case of Toquir Choudhri, a 14-year veteran of the Department of Education who had been accused of ignoring supervisors who told him to stop browsing the Internet at work.

The ruling came after Mayor Michael Bloomberg fired a worker in the city's legislative office in Albany earlier this year after he saw the man playing a game of solitaire on his computer.
In his decision, Spooner wrote:

"It should be observed that the Internet has become the modern equivalent of a telephone or a daily newspaper, providing a combination of communication and information that most employees use as frequently in their personal lives as for their work."

He added:

"For this reason, city agencies permit workers to use a telephone for personal calls, so long as this does not interfere with their overall work performance. Many agencies apply the same standard to the use of the Internet for personal purposes."

Spooner dispensed the lightest possible punishment on Choudhri, a reprimand, after a search of Choudhri's computer files revealed he had visited several news and travel sites.

Martin Druyan, Choudhri's lawyer, called the ruling "very reasonable."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/internet_surfing_1