Dunetz/ YidwithLid's Mountain of Lies Start to Unravel...

originally posted in February 2005

In January 2004 Yidwithlid (aka GRIDNEY) wrote an article that Target #1 gladly helped edit for him (his spelling and syntax is atrocious from what we have read on his personal website). As always, EOPC's editors comments in purple. It gets confusing - so feel free contact EOPC for clarification.

Target #1 then introduced him to an online female friend (we'll call her Target #2) that she'd just started emailing with across the country who was involved with similar issues . Target #1 asked Target #2 to help place his article in a couple more places.

(Target #2 independently confirmed to us that it was Target #1 who introduced them. EOPC conducted phone interviews with Target #2 - without Target #1 knowing - so we could be sure they were not concocting a story. Law enforcement has also confirmed the facts before telling us they had to go silent because of a "larger" investigation - which we will talk about later.)

Target #1 eventually learned that VERY shortly after introducing them, Yidwithlid initiated an online affair with Target #2

(We are unable to get permission from Target #2 to publish her IMs with Yidwithlid as she did not save most of them. She did however consent to independent interviews with us)

Target #1 - I had no idea they knew each other, outside me introducing them. Target #2 told me about 2-3 days after she helped place the article Yidwithlid wrote (supposedly at my suggestion) Yidwithlid asked Target #2 to open an IM window one day.

At the same time I was writing her, trying to get to know her better - seemed we had a lot in common. Target #2 would ask me questions about Yidwithlid and I was so dumb - I just said he was a great person. Little did I know he'd totally trashed me, made up outrageous lies about my past & present relationship to him and was starting to do his "love bombing" to her.

Target #2 ALSO came from an unhappy marriage, was disabled with a mental illness and had a background of sexual & emotional abuse so, once again was an easy target for Yidwithlid. Target #2 told us she stopped communicating with Target #1 for many weeks at Yidwithlids insistence. (Typical Cyberpath - SEPARATE YOUR TARGETS!)

(Target #2: "he told me he had taken Target #1s virginity (that's a lie readers, designed to anchor Yidwithlid's lies that Target #1 was obsessed with him. See how similar all these people are in creating a very plausible platform from which to prey on the wounded!) and she was stalking him. That he loved only ME and was just humoring her. Yidwithlid said some really nasty things about her. So I did what he said. I believed him!")

One evening, Target #2 told us she got very tired of Yidwithlids cryptic comments and finally IM'd Target #1 to ask her a question about Yidwithlid.

Target #1 - I had cc'd both of them on an article I had stumbled across that day. As I said, I didn't even KNOW they knew each other. Little did I know this triggered a series of events that finally led to the horrible truth coming out.

Target #2 and I spent a good hour just verbally avoiding saying anything about our true relationships to Yidwithlid. Finally I came right out and asked "are you having cybersex with him?" Her answer "Yes.... and more." I asked her for her phone number immediately. My whole body went cold and bile came up my throat.

Yidwithlid and I had had very intense cybersex just a few days before. It had upset me because I didn't want to but I couldn't help myself (he had her in his "thrall" readers! Like all of them)

In fact, that time J'd texted messaged me on my cell just a few minutes after I signed off from a very boring chat with him! It was BIZARRE because when I signed back on my computer at his request, it was like talking to another person!! (Dissociative fugue of a sex addict readers! Yidwithlid couldn't find anyone else online so he just decided to have a little fun with Target #1 KNOWING she was already compliant)

I had had many indications from Yidwithlid for the months prior something more was going on - here was the awful truth. But it was the tip of the iceberg. I asked him outright a few times if he was ok because he worried me. Yidwithlid was very malicious to me even saying one time:

"You want the truth? OK, if I was with you it would just be about sex. Its always been about just sex with you." - Yidwithlid

And he left (FINALLY he told the horrifying truth to this woman knowing she'd agreed to the relationship and was now brainwashed with his 'help' to say in it)

A couple days later he wrote me he'd forgotten to take his depression meds and he was truly sorry - please not to stop talking to him. (lie)I was in a total mental fog by then about right & wrong.

After 36 hours of no sleep for Target #1 or #2, here's some highlights of what came out of that all night conversation. Yidwithlid had been love bombing Target #2 for about 4-5 weeks by then.

Target #2 told us that Yidwithlid told Target #2 the following over the 5 weeks of their chatting. Remember Yidwithlid knew Target #1 in person but had never met Target #2 (does any of this sound familiar to you?):

• they were "soulmates,"
• Target #2 was Yidwithlids one and only
• he didn't love his wife at all
• He & Target #2 were 'twin souls'
• that Target #1 'lost her virginity to him' and that was why she been stalking him for years (remember Yidwithlid made first contact with Target #1 - and when we asked Target #1 she said no, she'd broken up with a long term boyfriend/ fiance in high school back then who'd taken her virginity and Yidwithlid was well aware of that fact!)
• Yidwithlid had offered to buy a video camera for Target #2 to make him 'personal movies'
• offered Target #2 money to help her out and pay for them to take trips together
• called Target #2 sometimes 3-4 times a day to talk and/or have phone sex (from a cell phone his job was paying for; see the cheaters 'how to' book!)
• he would be online with Target #2 while NOT EVEN BOTHERING to block Target #1 - willfully ignoring her ( both of them said Yidwithlid would put up a "WORKING" message - like all of them: working on more TARGETS or watching porn to fill his dialogue with targets)
• that he hated porn (remember the past posts about his penchant for PORN - and later - loads of porn sites are traced to his IP and credit card!!)
• had given Target #2 his business phone, his cell number and a variety of ways to contact him
• that he was just being nice to Target #1 and "never loved [Target #1], never!!"
• Yidwithlid had set up a meeting with a client not far from Target #2 so she could come meet him to start a physical affair, and stay at his hotel on Yidwithlids employer's dime
• he LOVED Target #2 and was IN LOVE with her (repeatedly)
• had planned more trips (around business meetings paid for by his employer at the time) for himself & Target #2 so their "love could go on forever"
• had specifically told Target #2 NOT to communicate with Target #1 ("if you tell [Target #1] she will be jealous and ruin our happiness")

Target #1: During our conversation (which went on all night and into the next day) Target #2 and I both realized Yidwithlid weaving a tapestry of lies and conceit, the details of which are perplexing, often silly and horribly painful. It was now painfully evident that Yidwithlid was a deeply sick person.

Where the lies ended and the truth started, its doubtful even he knew. Some lies were exactly the same, some were polar opposites, some were anchored in partial truths, some were real WTF moments. And in the interest of pleasing someone I cared for - I went along with it all. I was horrified and wanted to die.

It was finally clear to me what I had known in college, and what he worked so hard to dispel that he was not "into" me. In fact, Target #2 and I compared some dates and times:

• Yidwithlid told had 'broken down' and 'admitted' he was IN LOVE with Target #2 the day before he had last had cybersex with me. (independently verified by EOPC with Target #2)
• Yidwithlid was too cowardly to tell me truth himself - though I had asked him point blank a few times.
• Yidwithlid wouldn't admit I'd introduced him to Target#2- tried to tell everyone he met Target #2 via his website - but even Target #2 said "no, she [Target #1] introduced us!" (independently verified by EOPC with Target #2)
• Yidwithlid had steadfastly refused to give me his phone number, supposedly for fear his wife or my ex-husband would find out; even as a friend knowing I was taking abuse because of Yidwithlid. My ex-husband already HAD it and had given it to me 18 months prior! I had it but I NEVER used it or violated this information. I was waiting for him to stop all the nonsense but got sucked into it because of my lack of ego. I had no intention and never have had, of hurting his wife, family or kids.
  
• Also, later law enforcement showed me it was all online anyway - and anyone could have found it by surfing on "gridney" and then using zabasearch on his real name.

Now Yidwithlid's sickness and dysfunction was plain as day; mine was harder to get at. My therapists have explained to me I had been brainwashed and reeled in with the obsession Yidwithlid'd seductively planted in my brain that somehow I could help him and that he 'needed' me.

Readers, Cyberpaths relish doing this to their victims - even when caught they plant their 'hooks' deep and the Targets turn themselves inside out to remove them. Targets often spend weeks, months and years trying to figure out what happened - Cyberpaths just tell selective truth to their partners and counselors and tell everyone else to "move on" & "get over it" to avoid further scrutiny!

They have probably been lying about so much stuff in their lives they will blame everyone around them and "shut down" all inquiries into the house of sand their lives are built on.

Yes, EOPC has had demands and threats to remove postings from Cyberpaths. Unless we have hard and verified information that the posts were NOT TRUE, they stay up!

Now REMEMBER - Target #1 had tried a few times to discontinue with Yidwithlid with the nagging thought that in the 2 years prior that Yidwithlid was no longer interested in her - Yidwithlid would come back and BOMB Target #1 with how much she meant to him and “please don't stop talking to me."

REMEMBER the first posts about him? Their chats? Yidwithlid'd told Target #1 he wasn't demonstrative ('I was too laid back & too macho to tell you how I felt'- was approximately how he put their earlier and current 'relationship'). Yet here Yidwithlid was telling a woman he had never met in person that he "LOVED her, never loved his wife", made plans to see her, sent Target #2 all his emails & phone numbers and basically chased her like a hungry lion.

(EOPC note: Target #2 has admitted that she was registered with sites like AdultFriendFinder and JDate - despite being married at that time. She doesn't see anything wrong with because she said her "husband gave her permission." )

In one chat we read, Target #1 was hurt but STILL trying to be Yidwithlids 'friend' -- she told Target #2 to go ahead and be with him because obviously she couldn't help him & after 26 years and she just wanted him to be happy.
Readers - think about this - does that sound like an obsessed stalker? Do any of the victims we have worked with, as accused by their predators, sound like stalkers?

We are amazed that cyberpaths so CONSISTENTLY refuse accountability for what they have done and not only DENY but pin the lion's share of blame and responsibility on their Targets!! (remember Nathan Thomas asked HIS victim 'not to cause him trouble & annoy him')

Yidwithlid had been setting this up for some time - by turning around his seduction and manipulation of Target #1 by saying things to her like "if you want to" and "its up to you"... REMEMBER? and sorry but:

TRUE jealous stalkers and lovesick women don't tell rivals to 'go ahead and be with' the object of their affection!!

But there's more! as Yidwithlid turns this whole thing around on both Targets.... almost. (and then he will blame them, play the hurt party and cut off all contact because they know the truth - and Cyberpaths MUST destroy anyone who calls them out completely and fully. Usually by terrorizing them and destroying their credibility and character! Has this been done to you, readers?)

Target #1 - I was finally sure. Everything was a cruel, horrible, twisted LIE. From day ONE! Yidwithlid never had any intent but to toy with me and then paint me to be a pathetic old woman. Even telling Target #2 that I had lost my virginity to him? That was a lie. And he told it to make ME look FIXATED on him.

And this despite his PROTESTING whenever I called him on his 'manipulations." (Beware - anyone who SWEARS he is telling the truth to you? Or needs to say its TRUE - has SOMETHING TO HIDE!) But I still didn't realize he was a player... I thought I was just being tossed aside for something better... and I was ready to just take it.

Yidwithlid shot himself in the foot first. When this Online Predator found out his Targets had talked, like most online players Yidwithlid first spent several days trying to call both women and smooth it out.

Target #1 - Yidwithlid was spinning the facts, times, dates and other things like crazy. He IM'd Target #2 telling her to lay low for a couple weeks.

From Target #2 interviews: "He said to me he'd told his clergyman he'd "Fallen in love with another woman." And that once he could schmooze his wife, he'd be in touch and we'd pick up where we left off. "

This kept Target#2 reeled in because she wasn't sure WHO was telling the truth - Yidwithlid is slick, ain't he?

Target #1: Of course he said NOTHING about me because I never really existed as a real human being anyway. Even Target #2 said "where's the explanation for you?" (Psychological sadist.)

Target#2 said she couldn't get a straight answer out of him.

Once truly exposed Yidwithlid told Target #2 "If you love ME, you will LEAVE me alone." (WTH??)

Target #1: Target #2 said the whole reason she'd finally contacted me was to figure out the Word Salad and cryptic comments!!

Target #2: After repeatedly assuring me he didn't love his wife & hadn't for years now he said "please go away and let my wife heal." Go away? Heal?

I realized he meant stop telling my wife the truth!! so I can tell her more LIES! I was furious and I was going to rip this guy's life wide open for using me like I was a cheap hooker.

(Readers, while telling is one thing - harassment is another. And we do not condone HARASSMENT - EOPC)

Target #1: I felt really stupid, dirty and used. A therapist told me it was emotional rape and put me on sedation. That pretty much summed it up.

When Yidwithlid realized he'd been almost completely exposed, Yidwithlid IM'd Target #1 threatening to tell her ex husband they'd had a physical actual affair and assured Target #1 he was a 'good liar' Yidwithlid also threatened Target #1 with the removal of her kids. She was terrified and still in deep shock.

Yidwithlid stupidly ASSUMED the attacks were from HER! ASSUMED!

(This IM has been verified and is on file with law enforcement - Target #1 has an Order of Protection because of this IM)
~~~~~

Yidwithlid: Let me make this clear. You got me back its done !!! (got me back? is this high school? no this is adults here)

Next there is a call, email letter anthing to me my office or anyone in my family or anyone about me from you or ANYONE I will swear out an order of protection with the police.

And you better believe that the copy of it I send to [your ex-husband] will have some of the prose you sent to [my wife] ..Plus some added tidbits of my own. (Yidwithlid says 'prose' implying that he already painted Target #1 as a liar)

Fedex goes to [your neighborhood]

Target #1: I read that (Yidwithlid had emailed the same paragraph he just typed to her moments before IMing her)

Yidwithlid: nothing on the web either - I will assume its from yo (paranoia on the Cyberpaths' part is classic - there was NOTHING 'on the web' that Target #1 had put or was aware of)

Target #1: [my ex-husband] knows everything

Target #1: you cant hurt me anymore

Target #1: what on the web

Target #1: what are you talking about

Yidwithlid: I am a great embellisher (no s**t)

Target #1: huh? you are sick

Yidwithlid: [your ex-husband] might find that it was physical

Yidwithlid: its over (what's over Yidwithlid? YOUR GAMES???)

Target #1: he already thinks that, so what

Yidwithlid: Ill give him proof

Target #1: so what... you can't do anything to me Yidwithlid

Target #1: that hasn't already been done

Target #1: my therapist knows

Target #1: everyone knows (good - she told him that she hadn't keep his 'secret' - the online predator is exposed!!)

Target #1: I just hope as your friend you get help

Yidwithlid: I will see to it your children are taken away

Yidwithlid: I am on more durgs than I willever understand (he'd supposedly FINALLY gone to a shrink because the truth was coming out faster than he could obfuscate it - probably the psychiatrist medicated him for anxiety.... LOL. Ironic because Target #1, if you remember, was on medication because of him just 4 months into the relationship!)

Yidwithlid: my friend ? lol

Target #1: I pray they work

(Yidwithlid cuts the conversation off here and leaves - remember how Nathan Thomas just LEFT his Victim dangling? And Brad Dorsky accused his Victim of being a 'player' too, then LEFT? Suddenly - the Internet Predator has NO WORDS when BUSTED!)

Target #1 made a decision to turn all information over to his wife. She tells us it was only fair no matter how embarrassing it was to her (Target #1) personally.

(Target #1: "he needed help and I hoped she'd intervene to save him and their marriage. By then I was immaterial anyway.")

Target #2 said she was going to find out where his family was, that Yidwithlid told her about some of his clients and his boss and that anyone she could find was going to find out.

This of course, fueled his anger (he was lying to both everyone and needed a CLEAR FIELD to continue to lie) and Yidwithlid lied even more making Target#1 out to be a stalker and HIMSELF the victim - and continues to say it's a conspiracy to this day!

TO BE CONTINUED READERS..... this gets 'better'!

UPDATE: CLICK HERE

Yidwithlid /Dunetz's Classic Online Seduction Patterns Continued...

Continuing with Yidwithlids STUNNING example of online manipulation -- using R. Greene's THE ART OF SEDUCTION techniques of control & manipulation:

13- Disarm through Strategic Weakness and Vulnerability
Too much maneuvering on your part may raise suspicion. The best way to cover your tracks is to make the other person feel superior and stronger. If you seem to be weak, vulnerable, enthralled by the other person, and unable to control yourself, you will make your actions look more natural, less calculated. To further win trust, exchange honesty for virtue: establish your "sincerity" by confessing some sin on your part-it doesn't have to be real. Sincerity is more important than goodness. Play the victim, then transform your target's sympathy into love.

Yidwithlid was BIG on #13. It got monotonous for us reading how many times he told Target #1 "I can't control myself around you" or just "I can't control." He spent a lot of time talking about how badly other women had treated him, asking Target #1 for advice about dealing with his cold wife who discouraged all his dreams.

As well as advice on dealing with his depression and ADHD. Yidwithlid spent a lot of time being very impressed with her knowledge, her empathy and her altruism. Here's some of the classic comments we got out of his chats with Target #1:

Yidwithlid: You are too good. You really help people

Yidwithlid: You are something special, you know that?

Yidwithlid: Why didn't we know we felt this way 26 years ago? .... saved us both a lot of heartache.

Yidwithlid: I am sorry I don't mean to hurt you. I can't control

Yidwithlid: I don't want to wierd you out

Yidwithlid: You just gave me the chills.

Yidwithlid went on to confess some wild things he'd done when he was younger. Sexually and just everyday. Yidwithlid did this to get Target #1 to talk about her past probably so he'd have something to use against her if he needed. (the abuser's secret weapon: F.O.G. = Fear, Obligation & Guilt)

Target #1 - I told him about things that only happened ONCE when I was younger. I told him I wasn't proud of myself and I know no longer drink or get high. Yidwithlid told me he did the same or worse. Now I know he was extracting 'confessions' from me to use at a later time. His 'confessions' got worse as time went on - about 3-somes and so on. I told him a few times "too much information!" His response "hey you told me x-y-z!" I felt so shamed I let him go on. Of course these confessions just made me feel worse - like I wasn't good enough for him. So I tried to be a little wilder - just to make him feel better! I thought I was in a private relationship, just him & me. What was happening to me?

Yidwithlid talked numerous times of how 2 of his family members abused him. At one point, after he got a new job, he spent time venting to Target #1 how much trouble he was having with someone at his office. He spent a lot of time asking her for input on how to deal with it. He also did the same about members at a community activity he was involved with. Target #1 told him he should "do more things for himself." Yidwithlid was painting himself as a selfless do-gooder; quite far from the truth.

Yidwithlid: They don't like me

Yidwithlid: I have always been a round peg in a square hole

Yidwithlid: I feel so alone sometimes

Yidwithlid: I should never have married [my wife] but something happened (of course he NEVER explained WHAT happened)

Yidwithlid: He's out to get me (about a boss)

Yidwithlid: I try to be a nice person - I don't get why people don't like me

14- Confuse Desire and Reality: The Perfect Illusion
It is important to start slowly, gaining their trust, and gradually constructing the fantasy that matches their desires. Aim at secret wishes that have been thwarted or repressed, stirring up uncontrollable emotions, clouding their powers of reason. The perfect illusion is one that does not depart too much from reality, but has a touch of the unreal to it, like a waking dream.

Yidwithlid: if only things were different

Yidwithlid: "it scares me how I feel about you" (this is an NLP Implanted Thought - i.e. 'I am scared so you should be, too.' It creates CONTROL of the Victim's emotions)

Yidwithlid: I know we were lovers in another life"

Yidwithlid: the cybersex with you isn't without emotion you know

Yidwithlid: I am so confused about you.... or .... I am full of confusion about us (this is another NLP Implanted Thought - i.e. 'I am confused so you should be confused, too.' It further muddles the thinking of the Victim)

Target #1 - I was constantly in a fog with him. Distracted. I couldn't get a straight answer and when I demanded one he blocked me on IM so I stopped asking. I could barely think. I had problems sleeping. I ended up on an anti-depressant just 3 months into our 'relationship'.

I finally confided in a friend about the whole thing - just to get some perspective. I had been badly abused, they said he was was making me feel good about myself and I knew him from before, therefore he was probably trustworthy. They all said the same thing, "no old friend would do this to someone they know." WRONG!

15-Isolate the Victim
Their isolation may be psychological: by filling their field of vision through the pleasurable attention you pay them, you crowd out everything else in their mind. They see and think only of you.

Yidwithlid implored the Target to PLEASE keep the relationship a secret. He would always ASK when her spouse or partner was gone or asleep.

He also asked her best friend not to talk to her about things he'd revealed to her! Separating friends!

Target #1 started taking some spirituality classes and he discouraged her saying it might not be 'good' for her.

(PAY ATTENTION AGAIN HERE READERS:)

Target #1 - As I said, what I did not know what that my estranged husband (who knew a lot about computers) had a stealth keylogger on the computer and was downloading EVERYTHING to his job. Not just the chat's with Yidwithlid - my emails, my chats with friends, my looking up stuff about divorce.

On Sept.13, 2002 - my ex sent myself & Yidwithlid an email that said "What do you two plan to do about this?" with a copy of a cybersex chat Yidwithlid and I had had. Yidwithlid disappeared. Zoom!! Told me 'its best if I go away.' This pushed my abandonment button big time.

My estranged husband started to abuse me worse. He would take out chats and read excerpts to my small children. (This was latter used against her ex husband during custody negotiations) He called me Yidwithlid's whore in front of my kids, physically pushed me around. I slept on the floor of my child's room for over 2 years after that and often I got up and could barely walk! It wasn't pretty.

One day at my attorney's later in Sept. 2002 - she handed me a huge packet of everything. Hard copies & disk. Everything my ex'd downloaded telling me my ex-husband still had it. I got the keylogger off but somehow, he was still downloading things here & there. At that time I had no idea how to even save a chat! After this I made it my business to learn more about computer security. I had been entrapped by my ex-husband on the one hand and blamed by Yidwithlid for ruining his fun. I felt like a caged beaten animal. I told Yidwithlid all this and he did nothing but stop giving me even emotional support. Zip... gone. Just like in college!! (No accountability, no 'nice guy' - just 'save his own a**')

When I moved myself & the kids away from my ex-husband I tried to get everything off the computer and did succeed. When things with Yidwithlid exploded in March 2004 I totally disconnected my computer for months afterward. I couldn't go near it - besides I was in the hospital and/or away. I smashed my webcam in my trauma, too.

I gave everything I had to the police; as they asked me to. EVERYTHING. I didn't have the energy to be selective because I was too traumatized. It was all out there, despite how embarrassed I was. The police got more off my computer and I think, Yidwithlids. They verified that nothing was edited or made up. They validated it and its all still on file with them and copies to me. Everything. I bet the cops downtown had a good laugh at my expense too but I deserved it for being so naive.

Key symptoms of a Psychopath/Sociopath:

1. Glib and superficial
2. Egocentric and grandiose
3. Lack of remorse or guilt
4. Lack of empathy
5. Deceitful and manipulative
6. Shallow emotions

Psychopaths can be very effective in presenting themselves well and are often very likable and charming. To some people, however, they seem too slick and smooth, too obviously insincere and superficial. Astute observers often get the impression that psychopaths are play-acting, mechanically, "reading their lines".

Sociopaths are very egocentric individuals that lack a sense of personal responsibility and morality. They may be impulsive, manipulative, reckless, quarrelsome, and consistent liars.

The sociopath may be an excellent actor, always appearing charming, calm, and collected. They usually have a normal or above normal intelligence level and good verbal fluency. It is these qualities that sometimes place the sociopath in leadership positions within their social groups and often make it hard to spot their "black side".

from www.findlaci2003.us

Psychopaths can be very sociable, even though they are antisocial behind their "mask" in the sense that their "emotions" are completely fake. They are masters at manipulating others for their personal gain. Their charm, in fact, is legendary.

Psychopaths are experts at using people. They can ask anything of anyone without embarrassment and because of their outgoing seducing friendliness, their use of "poor innocent me! I am such a GOOD person and I have been treated so BADLY!" the victim invariably gets sucked into giving the psychopath what they ask for - no matter how outrageous.

Psychopaths are masters at faking emotions in order to manipulate others. One psychologist reported that if you actually catch them in the act of committing a crime, or telling a lie, "they will immediately justify their actions by self pity and blaming another, by creating a heart-rending scene of faked emotional feelings." These fake emotions are only for effect, as the careful observer will note. The Psychopath considers getting their way or getting out of trouble using faked emotions as a victory over another person.

Psychopaths are incapable of feeling concern or remorse for the consequences of their actions. They can calmly rationalize their insensitive and bizarre behavior all the while attributing malice to everyone but themselves. When caught in a lie, they will manipulate others or stories to their own advantage without any fear of being found out - even if it is obvious to everyone around them that they WILL be found out.

Psychopaths cannot feel fear for themselves, much less empathy for others. Most normal people, when they are about to do something dangerous, illegal, or immoral, feel a rush of worry, nervousness, or fear. Guilt may overwhelm them and prevent them from even committing the deed. The psychopath feels little or nothing.

The psychopath seems to be full of something akin to deep greed. They manifest this inner state in many ways. One of the most common ways is to steal something of value to their victim (valuables), or to hurt/slander the victim or something or someone the victim loves. In the psychopath's mind, this is justified because the victim crossed him, did not give him what he wanted, or rejected him (or her).

Psychopaths lie for the sake of lying. They can convey the deepest heart-felt message without meaning a word of it. They can also tell the most outrageous stories simply in order to be at the center of attention and to get what they want.

The psychopath is obsessed with control even if they give the impression of being helpless. Their pretense to emotional sensitivity is really part of their control function: The higher the level of belief in the psychopath that can be induced in their victim through their dramas, the more "control" the psychopath believes they have. And in fact, this is true. They DO have control when others believe their lies.

Sadly, the degree of belief, the degree of "submission" to this control via false representation, generally produces so much pain when the truth is glimpsed that the victim would prefer to continue in the lie than face the fact that they have been duped. The psychopath counts on this. It is part of their "actuarial calculations." It gives them a feeling of power.

It is all too easy to fall under the spell of the charismatic psychopath. There are many who do the psychopath's bidding without realizing that they have been subtly and cleverly controlled. They can even be manipulated to perform criminal acts, or acts of sabotage against another - innocent - person on behalf of the psychopath. Very often, when this is realized by the victim, that they have caused suffering in innocent people at the behest of a liar, again they prefer to deny this than to face up to the truth of their own perfidy and gullibility.

from "A Natural State of Pschopathy", by Laura Knight-Jadzyk

(As we said, we asked Target #1 for the chats and she sent them to us. EOPC decided what to use and Target #1 also gave us written permission what to use & not use. She also sent a letter to law enforcement that this site may be using these chats with the express direction NO REAL NAMES, LOCATIONS OR INFORMATION BE INCLUDED IN THIS EXPOSE, which we agreed to. These chats were loaded with "word salad" and phrases to create cognitive dissonance by Yidwithlid)

16-Prove Yourself
Never appear discouraged by people's resistance, or complaints. Instead, meet the challenge by doing something extreme or chivalrous. Conversely, spur others to prove themselves by making yourself hard to reach, unattainable, worth fighting over.

Yidwithlid had plausible explanations for everything. Over the course of the chats, Target #1 repeatedly tried to normalize the relationship by asking that they get together and meet each others families. Yidwithlids reasons for not doing it seemed plausible. Either he would promise it would happen eventually - or he would "love bomb" the Target and tell her having her meet his wife would make him crazy - so she felt guilty for even asking.

Target #1 - the worst was the mixed messages. Yidwithlid was constantly sending pictures of himself with his wife & kids or just of his kids. He wanted to see mine too. I kept saying why don't you just calm down and meet them?

It was painful to see pictures of an old friend and their family and not meet them. None of my old friends that have gotten in touch with me have done this. I know them all and their families. It hurt. Bad.

Finally he was talking about one of his children and I said "I would really like to meet them." I remember his exact response, "That will never happen." I was torn up inside. It was one of the times I didn't chat with him for a number of weeks. I was insulted. He made me feel like I was garbage - of course he apologized profusely later with his "I know I can't control around you" mantra. As if I was the REASON he was doing everything he did. I felt so RESPONSIBLE!

17-Effect a Regression
People who have experienced a certain kind of pleasure in the past will try to repeat or relive it. The deepest-rooted and most pleasurable memories are usually those from earliest childhood, and are often unconsciously associated with a parental figure. Bring your targets back to that point by placing yourself in the oedipal triangle and positioning them as the needy child. Unaware of the cause of their emotional response, they will fall in love with you. Alternatively, you too can regress, letting them play the role of the protecting, nursing parent. In either case you are offering the ultimate fantasy: the chance to have an intimate relationship with mommy or daddy, son or daughter.

Yidwithlid systematically fed Target #1 the sort of verbal and emotional support her abusive ex husband never did. He called her "talented", "beautiful", "unforgettable", "special" and so on. Of course Yidwithlid had fully profiled & lured her and knew where her vulnerabilities were. Yidwithlid knew she had a weak & fragile ego so he fed it to lure her in and bond her to him while he used & abused her.

Don't forget Yidwithlid and the Target #1 went to college together and he just 'happened' to find her on Classmates.com and "just had to write" her. This is what makes this particularly story interesting, because it doesn't happen often that predator & prey KNOW each other previously. (Yidwithlid now swears she was 'stalking him since college' - this is bold-faced LIE. We have proof that 1. Yidwithlid was the ONLY one with a Classmates.com paid account - which is how he got Target #1s email and 2. He wrote her first. He initiated the relationship, the cybersex, everything. HIM, not her.)

This type of exchange below happened, in one form or another, over 20 times in the first 5 months of the online communication between Yidwithlid and the Target:

Target: its just words
Yidwithlid: I don't say things I don't mean
Target: me either
Yidwithlid: I mean how I feel about you
Yidwithlid: I feel connected to you, drawn to you

Target: you could just be toying with me
Yidwithlid: It hurts to have you say that
Yidwithlid: you know me
Target: not recently
Yidwithlid: I would never hurt you never
Yidwithlid: I would do anything to make you happy

Target: I still don't know what to think about you
Yidwithlid: various states of emotion
Yidwithlid: and confusion
Target: who me?
Yidwithlid: no me
Target: you really mean everything you are saying to me?
Yidwithlid: I cant believe you are still asking me that question! (this of course, put Target on the defensive and dumped guilt and more confusion into the mix so she would stop examing what he was doing so closely)

18-Stir up the Transgressive and Taboo
There are always social limits on what one can do. Some of these, the most elemental taboos simply defining polite and acceptable behavior. Making your targets feel that you are leading them past either kind of limit is immensely seductive. Not everything in romantic love is supposed to be tender and soft; hint that you have a cruel, even sadistic streak. You do not respect age differences, marriage vows, family ties. Take them farther than they imagined-the shared feeling of guilt and complicity will create a powerful bond.

Yidwithlid lured & coerced the Target into cybersex and phone sex numerous times.

He also shame-dumped on her by REPEATEDLY telling her that it was HER that was making him feel this way and he had "never done this sort of thing with anyone else before","I swear to God" or it was "so wrong but feels so right"

Yidwithlid: I cant take it anymore
Target: what?
Yidwithlid: we need to get naked together
Target: are you sure about that?
Yidwithlid: why do you keep asking that?
Target: we are married to other people now
Yidwithlid: I need you (notice how Yidwithlid doesn't answer direct statements or questions??)

Target #1 - he would sometimes seem to ZONE out during chats. I would say, 'are you there?' or 'are you O.K.?' and the very next minute he would send me some porn clip from a porn site. Now I know he was either: writting up his latest 'hooker review' or watching porn. He wasn't even paying attention to me anymore - he was in a fugue of sex & depravity!

I tried to make a joke out of it asking him what a nice guy was doing with all that porn. He could click up free porn so fast it was frightening!!

He wasn't even reading what I was typing. It was like he was in a fugue. He just would send the porn and say "lets do this" or "would be interested in doing this."

Sometimes when I IM'd him first to say hi he would say - "can't talk... working" Now I realize that he was there watching and masturbating to porn. He would be watching porn while he was talking to me too. The sheer amount of porn and the speed at which he would send it to me was amazing.

I had a dial up service and he had broadband so I told him I couldn't download the stuff. I would glance at it and delete it as fast as it came in. I felt shamed so I said stuff like "yes, we could do that" so I wouldn't make him mad and he would run away.

When I told him my concerns that our whole online relationship was turning into only sex talk and cybersex he would 'remind' me of all the discussions we had about our children, jobs, people, spirituality, current events.... and I felt guilty. The one line that sticks out in my mind when I asked him what he wanted from more sex in his life he said "I don't want to take, I want to share" (remember that SHARE comment in this post? - During these chats, even FIGHTER lost count of the number of times Yidwithlid said this "SHARE" line!)

Yidwithlid did get very angry when I asked him where he was doing all this. A number of times I said "aren't your kids home?" or "can't your kids or wife hear you?" He got really snippy with me. Now I realize he had no boundaries. Yidwithlid was in the porn zone!

Target: if you are busy we can chat another time
Yidwithlid: no don't go
Target: Sorry your attention seems to be elsewhere
Yidwithlid: Im ADHD remember?
Target: ok
Yidwithlid: You always have my attention
Target: ok

Yidwithlid: I want to show you something
Target: oh?
Yidwithlid: [link]
Yidwithlid: its porn - don't watch it if you're offended
Target: what is with all the porn? LOL
Yidwithlid: I need relief
Yidwithlid: but I want real

AND REMEMBER if the potential cyberpath INSISTS that you delete all chats? or emails? DON'T!!! Copy them to a disk and keep in a safe place. You may need them later and copies can be massaged to give up ISPs, sources codes and so on. Even if you have to lie - DELETE NOTHING once the online friendship turns to "more."

And if they INSIST on you KEEPING THE
RELATIONSHIP A SECRET - don't!! This is a DEAD giveaway

If something's for real - they will want to tell everyone and so will you!! Someone with nothing to hide will not beg you to delete things.

While Yidwithlid did not hide that he was married, nor did Target #1 - Yidwithlid did hide a serious sex addiction that encompassed a lot more than this online affair, as we will find out.

Target #1's only mistake was this relationship - she had nothing else to hide.

19-Use Spiritual Lures
Everyone has doubts and insecurities-about their body, their self-worth, their sexuality. If your seduction appeals exclusively to the physical, you will stir up these doubts and make your targets self-conscious. Instead, lure them out of their insecurities by making them focus on something sublime and spiritual: a religious experience, a lofty work of art, the occult. Lost in a spiritual mist, the target will feel light and uninhibited. Deepen the effect of your seduction by making its sexual culmination seem like the spiritual union of two souls.

Target #1 - Yidwithlid and I spent hours and hours talking about religion and God. I am deeply spiritual and have had some unusual life experiences that I don't share often. Its probably the one thing I truly missed when it all fell apart. Now I see he was sitting at his end laughing at me.

He made me feel very much at ease talking. Yidwithlid would ask me a lot of questions about evil, truth, ethics, my spiritual practices. At first he would say he didn't believe the way I did - but over time he seemed to be more open-minded. Yidwithlid told me he'd gotten much more religious in the last few years and his wife didn't like it - that she was "mad at him for bringing God into their house."

Now I know Yidwithlid was sitting there, taking it all in, continuing to profile me so he could be my perfect mirror. He would talk about how we had a special connection.

In a moment's notice he'd switch from this Spiritual Guy to Mr. HornDog... And silly me, I went right along with it. He kept telling me it was our SPIRITUAL CONNECTION that made him want me so bad. And I just agreed and even found ways to justify it.
Yidwithlid's psychological cruelty seemed to know no bounds. This exchange sounded heart-wrenching for the Target #1 (who had severe infertility problems on top of being disabled).

Target: I really would have liked more children
Yidwithlid: me too
Yidwithlid: but [my wife] didnt want more
(pause of a few moments)
Yidwithlid: if it was up to me
Yidwithlid: I would have done everything to give you all the children you wanted

At one point Target #1 finally tells Yidwithlid that unless he spents some just-friendly time with her, she was not going to just go to a hotel room and jump into bed with him. In that particular chat she made it clear she wasn't comfortable. What happened? Yidwithlid disappeared from chat for weeks - just BOOM - gone (he'd BLOCKED HER!!)

Typical predator - when he hadn't gotten what he wanted and his Target made a boundary - he withdrew himself and his attentions as a form of 'punishment.'

Target: lets get together for coffee or drink and start being friends again
Yidwithlid: no
Target: I don't understand
Yidwithlid: I still feel the same
Yidwithlid: I know I can't control around you
Yidwithlid: but if we get caught we are dead ducks
Target: caught at what? we haven't done anything!
Yidwithlid: I will have no control around you... I just know it

(once again, dangling the taboo and making the Target feel guilty and responsible for his 'control' problems. Also an Imbedded NLP command to make Target feel out of control also)

20-Mix Pleasure with Pain
The greatest mistake in seduction is being too nice. At first, perhaps, your kindness is charming, but it soon grows monotonous. Instead of overwhelming your targets with niceness, try inflicting some pain. Lure them in with focused attention, then change direction, appearing suddenly uninterested. Make them guilty and insecure. Subjecting them to an emptiness and pain that will give you room to maneuver-now a rapprochement, an apology, a return to your earlier kindness, will turn them weak at the knees. The lower the lows you create, the greater the highs. To heighten the erotic charge, create the excitement of fear.

Yidwithlids frequent lines along the path of #20 here:
"If you want I will go away and not chat with you anymore"
"if this relationship is causing you pain, maybe we should end it"

Yidwithlid played come-to-me-go-away a lot, as we commented before. knowing Target #1 was scared of ending it. She needed the sympathetic ear and Yidwithlid knew it.

Target #1 - Yidwithlid would be unbelievably changeable in his moods. You never knew who you were getting. Sometimes he was downright insulting in his sarcasm.

When we had lunch he made a crack about my hair being colored. I don't fully color my hair and I told him so. He got annoyed that I called him on this.

Yidwithlid made a comment about most religious groups being male dominated. I told him I knew but in my opinion that was misogyny. He was visibly angry but said nothing.

On the way out of the restaurant where we had lunch I made a point of briefly touching his arm while I was talking. He glared at me for a couple moments like my hand was a red-hot poker.

He also would tell me how badly he 'wanted' me while at the same time PUSHING me to go back to my ex-husband or to "get laid." He tried to give me marital advice. Just after my ex found out about Yidwithlid and I's emotional affair - Yidwithlid told me he felt responsible. He was responsible! But then he said it would be better if we let it cool off for a while and I didn't see him online again for over a month!

(he'd blocked her)

My ex-husband was abusing me very badly, I was seriously depressed and Yidwithlid just ran away. No adult discussion, no friendship, nothing. Of course he made it seem like he was being very chivalrous by going away. I know now I was trauma-bonded to him because of it.

In January 2004 I was supposed to go to the hospital for 10 days for surgery. Yidwithlid had, in the first 18 months we were chatting - been very supportive of my disability and health problems. I mentioned to him in December 2003 I was scheduled for surgery. He didn't ask what for or why. Just said "sorry". Later in that same chat I asked him, since the hospital was close to where he worked - if he would come visit me at least. He didn't even respond. Thank goodness the surgery ended up being cancelled as some things resolved physically on their own. I was so despondent. What had I done wrong?

A handful of times I got suicidal about my situation. Between Yidwithlid and my ex - my brain was spinning and I felt terrible. My disability even got worse. The first couple times I told Yidwithlid I wanted to end everything he was very good about talking to me but one time I said I was feeling the darkness again and his response? "Maybe you are just doing this (saying I was suicidal) because you want my attention." WTF!! I cried for 2 days.

Of course then he'd come back and emotionally & sexually BOMB me again. I was a wreck.

21-Give Them Space to Fall: The Pursuer is Pursued
If your targets become too used to you as the aggressor, they will give less of their own energy, and the tension will slacken. Once they are under your spell, take a step back and they will start to come after you. Begin with a touch of aloofness, an unexpected nonappearance, a hint that you are growing bored. Soon they will want to possess you physically, and restraint will go out the window.

Target #1 - Yidwithlid told me when I would IM him first or be flirtatious with him that he didn't like it. He called me aggressive a couple times, which I really hated, and I told him so. Like a schoolyard bully - he just did it again.

A number of times on a voice program I called him "honey" or "sweetie" and he made me stop immediately. He told me he HATED cute names and it really turned him off. (remember this one readers!)

Yidwithlid refused to tell me his cell number. He asked for my home or cell number but he could never seem to 'remember' it. When we had lunch the one time, I was late. I had to park far from the restaurant and walk. And I don't walk very well. I gave him my cell number that morning but he never even called to see where I was. I showed up 1/2 hr late. Anyone else I would have called them and apologized - but I couldn't with him and he was very annoyed I was late. It was his own fault.

Oddly enough, my ex-husband had given me Yidwithlid's home phone number, address and work phone. He'd found it all when he download the chats between Yidwithlid and I because he was planning on filing charges on Yidwithlid or going to his home and talking to Yidwithlids wife. I had to beg my ex-husband not to do that, which meant I got abused worse. But I put up with it because I felt everything was my fault. But the point is, my ex had given me all of Yidwithlids information but I never once used it in 2 years I had it.

By the time the relationship blew up - Yidwithlid had me practically throwing myself at him. I look back now and think 'who was that! I never do stuff like that!' But I did. I was mortified at my behaviour but now I see it was all part of his manipulation. I was losing control of myself. Yidwithlid was probably sitting back laughing at every moment of it.

He made me forget that HE was the one who started the whole mess and HE was the one who INITIATED my interest. Yidwithlid told me he was only "protecting me from" him! But he wouldn't elaborate. Yidwithlid would only say "I am sick. I need help" or "I wish I was as good as you think I am" or "if you really knew me you wouldn't like me" but he would never be specific. He told me I would lose respect for him if I really knew him. It was just crazy trying to figure it all out.

22-Use Physical Lures
Put their minds gently to rest, and waken their dormant senses, by combining a nondefensive attitude with a charged sexual presence. While your cool, nonchalant air is calming their minds and lowering their inhibitions, your voice-oozing sex and desire-are getting under their skin, agitating their senses and raising their temperature. Never force; instead infect your targets with heat, lure them into lust.

Target - Stupid me, I finally restarted the whole sexual thing - I was so upset by Yidwithlid telling me how lonely he was. I asked him why we didn't cyber anymore. Yidwithlid had no answer for me and repeatedly used the lines"If you want to" or "It's up to you." or "If it will make you feel better." (making Target #1 responsible for the sexual content of their relationship again!!!) Yidwithlid told me since we couldn't be together I should start dating or 'just go get laid.' This was a total change from the earlier talk about emotion, connection and spiritual union he laid on me. I couldn't reconcile that I was still legally married. I tried to spend a lot more time with my kids. Yidwithlid wasn't impressed - in fact, his talk started to sound like he was very bored speaking to me - so chats started to be shorter. Sometimes I cut them off because I just couldn't take his hurtfulness. This from someone who professed to be religious, moral & ethical.

Don't get me wrong - I didn't want to marry him. I didn't want him to leave his wife. In fact I offered to help him find marital counseling, private counseling and I kept telling him I really wanted to meet her. I wanted some honesty & explanation for what was going on - but our relationship seemed to bounce around with his mood and I was scared of upsetting him. I didn't go and "just get laid" either. I am not that sort of person who can just sleep around for fun, or with someone for whom I have no feelings.

Yidwithlid stubbornly refused to acknowledge that I no longer loved my ex and I wasn't going to 'sleep with' someone who was abusing me. It didn't seem to compute with Yidwithlid.(because he was abusing her too!)

Then he started to talk to me about the sexual things he did with old girlfriends - it was hurtful but I was just so stunned I froze every time.

Yidwithlid was fixated on an ex-fiance and repeatedly told me he should have married her. Told me she did everything sexual including bringing her girlfriends home to be with him & her. I got this impression it was done to covertly say "YOU will never be good enough for me!" In college, we never really dated and he'd never given me a chance to have a relationship with him so how would he know? He got me pregnant and didn't care. The first time we had sex I had bleeding from bruising - he never called me the day after or any time after. I was nothing. He was doing the same thing now.

I was horrified and went into a denial that the ONLY reason he looked me up or even spoke to me was for sex. Free sex. Because he'd been unemployed and couldn't afford the pros. So look up that girl who had sex with you in college. And I was paying the price.

FOT 1 said she asked him around this time why he never pursued anything with me in college when he had the chance. His answer "Oh, I just didn't want to handle it." It would have been kinder if he'd just put a knife in me. I couldn't understand why I deserved the cruelty. My therapist told me he was mad at me that my ex-husband caught us!

Just before all the truth came out he came online one time to tell me he & his wife had had relations and he got very specific about everything they did. I blocked him for 3 weeks until he went to FOT1 and BEGGED her to intercede. I wrote him and told him he was out of line. That was his marriage and he had no business telling me that.

I told Yidwithlid that he needed to be a lot clearer about our relationship and what it was he wanted from me. I was really disgusted and wanted to end the relationship but just couldn't do it. His only response was to email me saying "I don't know what to say." He'd programmed me to feel so guilty that eventually I started talking to him again. Now I realize - he told me that just to mentally torture me, see how much I would take and still come back for more!

He kept sending me the articles he wrote. I would clean up his horrible English and spelling and sometimes tell him he needed to punch up certain areas. Of course later, he denied this but I still have his originals and my edits.

23-Master the Art of the Bold Move
Don't give the victim time to consider the consequences; and create conflict, stir up tension, so that the bold move comes as a great release. Showing hesitation or awkwardness means you are thinking of yourself, as opposed to being overwhelmed by the victim's charms. One person must go on the offensive, and it is you.

Let's let Target #1's comments prior to this and our comments speak for themselves on this one, shall we?

24-Beware the Aftereffects
Danger follows in the aftermath of a successful seduction. After emotions have reached a pitch, they often swing in the opposite direction-toward lassitude, distrust, disappointment. . If the game is to go on, a second seduction is required. Never let the other person take you for granted-use absence, create pain and conflict, to keep the seduced on tenterhooks.

We will follow up with the 'after-effects' (severe, permanent PTSD) from Yidwithlid's two years of torturing the Target and the truth coming out next....

Dunetz/ YidwithLid - Follows Seduction (NLP/ Sales) Patterns to the Letter

(originally posted in 2005)
EOPC's owners spent considerable time going over the 2 years worth of chats "J"/ Yidwithlid had with his Targets. Reprinting the pertinent chats in full would be boring for our readers and Target #1 was very specific about what we could not use.

Unlike our first predator - Ed Hicks (whose chats involved multiple women to whom he told the same thing) these chats below focused on one person that has given us copyright. Our copyright rules are on the left margin of this site. (A second Target comes along later. Whether Dunetz/Yidwithlid was targetting anyone else during this time we do not know)

What struck us as we were going through these chats is how Yidwith followed the seduction techniques in Robert Greene's THE ART OF SEDUCTION and seduction gurus like David Shade & Ross Jeffries - almost to the letter.

Little did Target #1 or later Target #2 suspect they were being systematically brainwashed!

Target #1 wrote to us about feeling "distracted, not herself, out of sorts" and "hypnotized" in retrospect. She spoke about "buzzing feelings in [her] head" and "wierd often synchronistic bodily sensations" during and after her chats with "Dunetz/GRIDNEY." (See post about Online Brainwashing) Was she responsible? She feels she was - but we know that these cyberpaths can skillfully manipulate the best of us!

Therefore - using excerpts from THE ART OF SEDUCTION we are going to use some of Dunetzs 'lines' and snippets of chat where appropriate - in order to show what was done to the Target. (confirmed chats on various Chat Platforms between April 2002 - February 2004) - Fighter

1-Choose the Right Victim
They are often isolated or at least somewhat unhappy (perhaps because of adverse circumstances), or can easily be made so -for the completely contented person is almost impossible to seduce. The perfect victim has some natural quality that attracts you. The strong emotions this quality inspires will help make your seductive maneuvers seem more natural and dynamic. The perfect victim allows for the perfect chase.

Target #1 is disabled, estranged from an abusive husband and a 'single parent.' Yidwithlid mentions frequently his other girlfriends - one who had an abusive father, another ex-fiance who was abused and then his wife whose ex-boyfriend was supposedly severely abusive. Basically exposing the fact that he, like most predators, 'hunts the wounded.'

Yidwithlid (aka Dunetz) references the relationship he had with the Target at University (spelling & syntax have been cleaned up - but content is unaltered) and here are some of his 'lines':

"J": You were the most talented person I ever met.

"J": You were a beautiful woman. I am positive you still are. No matter how much weight you have gained

"J": I would do anything to embrace you again

"J": You always supported me and were good to me.

"J": You are too nice

"J": How can [your ex-husband] not love you?

"J": Someone should hold you all night long

"J": I can see you not giving in to a disability

"J": You must have had guys chasing you all over the place

"J": You give me the chills

"J": Now that I have found you again, I will NEVER let you go

"J": I always could talk to you

"J": You make me feel like Stanley Kowalski

2-Create a False Sense of Security - Approach Indirectly. Lull the target into feeling secure, then strike.

"J"/ yidwithlid often spoke to Target #1 about her being - the only woman he could trust or talk to:

"J": Can I ask you something personal? about sex?
Target: I can't possibly have been the only woman besides your wife you were intimate with!
"J": One of the only decent ones
"J": Please
Target: OK shoot

Dunetz/ Yidwithlid goes on to confess - in great detail - his dismal marital relations. We are leaving the VERY SPECIFIC stuff out here for obvious reasons

"J": Shes....disappointing

"J": I am so frustrated

"J": I don't know what to do about her

"J": She doesn't want to talk about it

"J": I love her but....

"J": I am not sure I love her anymore

"J": She's sooooo .... practical!

"J": I would never go to a hooker...[my wife] would take the kids from me. besides, its immoral and illegal.

"J": Can I talk to you about some personal stuff


Of course the Target (who seems to be an 'altruistic rescuer' - one of the classic targets for cyberpaths) tells him to feel free to open up to her. Creating a sense that he trusts her and ONLY her.

3-Send Mixed Signals
Send mixed signals: both tough and tender, both spiritual and earthy, both innocent and cunning. A mix of qualities suggests depth, which fascinates even as it confuses. An elusive, enigmatic aura will make people want to know more, drawing them into your circle. Create such a power by hinting at something contradictory within you.

Contradictory statements by Dunetz/ Yidwithlid we pulled from chats sometimes days or hours apart. Imagine how confused his Target was!:

"J": I can't feel
"J": I am all about feelings

"J": Sex is only good when there's emotion involved
"J": Casual sex is great - just get laid

"J": Women can be very impressive
"J": I look at every woman like they are a hole

"J": I want to be with you so bad
"J": We can never be together 'like that' again

"J": I hope we can get together
"J": I can't see you - I can't control

"J": I don't kiss ass - I am honest
"J": I am a great 'emglissher' [Yiddish for embellisher or liar]

"J": I don't get out much
"J": I will be out/ I have a meeting ..... (used in numerous chats)

"J": You are my friend, my very special friend
"J": I have friends - besides if I spend time with you I will have to make some hard decisions about [my wife]. / I can't control around you

"J": I never believed in spiritual stuff
"J": I am deeply observant and religious

"J": I never liked tall women (Target #1 and his wife are tall)
"J": Your weight and physical problems don't matter to me (when Target #1 was blunt about how her illness had changed her. Numerous times. Including that yidwithlid SAW her when she was on a national morning show in June 2002! )

While Dunetz/yidwithlid continued to push his 'desire' for the Target - he simultaneously tried to advise her about repairing her marriage and later told her to just "go get laid". Something she would never do. She admitted to us, she foolishly went along with some of it because Dunetz/ Yidwithlid made her feel terribly guilty if she disagreed with him.

4-Appear to be an Object of Desire - Create Triangles
Manufacture the illusion of popularity by surrounding yourself with members of the opposite sex-friends, former lovers, present suitors. Create triangles that stimulate rivalry and raise your value. Build a reputation that precedes you: if many have succumbed to your charms, there must be a reason.

"J" spent over an hour from the pages of chat, in Spring 2003 talking to the Target about his ex-fiance. He went into great detail about her sexual prowess and of course devalued Target #1 at the same time - totally negating any initial positive talk he had fed Target#1 about his "desires" for her and implanting further confusion and trauma bonding.

"J": I don't think I love my wife anymore

"J": my wife is so.... practical!

"J": when I asked her to ****** she flipped out

"J": [my ex-fiance] was really jealous when she heard I got married

"J": [my ex-fiance's] husband X is gay. We all went to school together. I know

"J": [my ex-fiance] still writes to me all the time

"J": I wish I could find [my high school girlfriend]

"J": I know my ex-fiance would come back to me if I asked her

"J"/ Yidwithlid used the phrase "I talked to/or/ spent time with my friend so-and-so" frequently while simultaneously REFUSING to see the Target because he couldn't control himself around her. "J"/ Yidwithlid also frequently expounded about activities he was involved with, events he went to with his wife or friends and golf excursions. "J"/ Yidwithlid probably purposely did this to create frustration for the Target's desire to just get together (non-sexually) as well as using it like a 'carrot on a stick.' (note: Dorsky and Beckstead did the same with their Targets.)

The Target introduced Dunetz/ Yidwithlid to one of her dearest friends online. "J"/ Yidwithlid developed a friendship with this girl (later called FOT1) . Dunetz/ Yidwithlid would often tell FOT1 NOT to tell Target #1 things. (cyberpaths & abusers love to separate & isolate people) "

"J"/Yidwithlid would act paternally towards this friend of the Target's -- then flirtatious. (A crazymaking technique of pedophiles!)

5-Create a Need: Stir Anxiety and Discontent
Pain and anxiety are the proper precursors to pleasure. Learn to manufacture the need that you can fill.

"J"/ yidwithlid spent a lot of time trying to see why the Target gave up her former career and moaning about the career path he had taken. Both had wanted to be actors. Target did have a small career doing voice-overs and television commercials before her marriage and disability stopped that. "J"/ Yidwithlid said he didn't have the drive to continue and blamed it on his having Adult ADHD.

Additionally "J"/ yidwithlid verbally blame-shifted & made the TARGET RESPONSIBLE for his feelings and his complete lack of sexual impulse control. You will see that this instilled guilt, confusion & obligation in Target #1 - while he played with her mind.

Dunetz/ Yidwithlid got Target #1 to open up to him about her loneliness since her marriage failed and her struggles as a 'single' parent. "J"/ yidwithlid also made her comfortable and then obtained information about her past sexual history from her. He peppered those chats with:

"J": I want to embrace you. Just thinking about it makes me ***.

"J": If we were together it would be - do to me - do to you

"J": I would do anything to make you happy

"J": When I see you I will [fill in blank with cybersex]

"J": You know that will never happen

"J": Don't give me your address - I can't trust myself with it

"J": I want to **** you so bad

"J": I haven't been with anyone but my wife in years - but you.... you are another story


Need we say how crazymaking and depressing this emotional and psychological game he played was?

Target #1 did attempt to end the online relationship a few times - and succeeded in doing so for almost a month twice. But "J"/ Yidwithlid either appealed to her or FOT1 - and Target #1's forgiving nature gave in.

6-Master the Art of Insinuation
There is no known defense, however, against insinuation-the art of planting ideas in people's minds by dropping elusive hints that take root days later, even appearing to them as their own idea. Insinuation is the supreme means of influencing people. Create a sublanguage-bold statements followed by retraction and apology, ambiguous comments, banal talk combined with alluring glances-that enters the target's unconscious to convey your real meaning. Make everything suggestive.

"J": last nite I dreamt that you and I [cybersex here]

"J": I have been fantasizing about you all day [insert fantasy here]

"J": I was thinking about you and..... I think I hurt myself

I had a dream about you last nite
"J": tell me
"J": please

"J": Where will we go? a hotel room?
"J": cant do it here or there

"J": Im sorry if I offended you

"J": I didnt mean for it to get this far

"J": I think we should let things cool off


(said after the Target's ex-husband discovered the emotional affair, contacted Yidwithlid (who never responded) and started abusing Target #1. This was Dunetz/ Yidwithlid's cowardly excuse for running away and abandoning his Target with no support)

"J": I am sorry but.....

"J": If I think about you any more I am going to do something stupid


Most of Dunetz/ Yidwithlid's cybersex scenarios involved enough reality touches and suggestions of hookups that would drive anyone senient person out of their mind. Target #1 also sent us emails Dunetz/ Yidwithlid sent her. Never anything personal - she was on his mail list (as a BCC) for every sexual, suggestive and dirty email joke he got. Occassionally he would send one to her with a comment like "I wish this was us" or "do you think you could do this" or "we would have fun doing this wouldn't we."

Target - "I often said stuff like 'o.k. get in your car right now and meet me for coffee if you mean that.' We lived about an hour apart. Yidwithlid would get very mad and tell me I was being stupid and careless. Yidwithlid said if we got caught it would be bad for both of us. I told him it was just STUPID that we weren't even having lunch or something after knowing each other all those years. I figured if he saw me he'd cool off - I wouldn't be a fantasy person anymore I'd be real and he'd be more realistic. But he refused. I could kick myself for not using common sense - but for some reason, it was as if I couldn't think straight."

Dunetz/ Yidwithlid was also, over time, ramping up his requests for the Target to do things, take pictures of a sexual nature, get a webcam, make homemade porn for him, etc. The requests, as with most Online Predators - got more crude & rude as time went on. The Target would refuse and "J"/ Yidwithlid would apologize profusely saying:

"J": I understand if you never want to talk to me again;
or
"J": If you want me to just go away I will
or
"J": I am sick, I need help
or
"J": [online is] the only safe way we can be together

7-Enter Their Spirit
Play by their rules, enjoy what they enjoy, adapt yourself to their moods. In doing so you will stroke their deep-rooted narcissism and lower their defenses. Hypnotized by the mirror image you present, they will open up, becoming vulnerable to your subtle influence.

Target #1 - Yidwithlid would slowly, over time, start picking up my phrases or ideas with "that's cute." Within the first 5-6 months of the relationship we seemed to be so in sync it was eerie. I knew about manipulation but not mirroring. It never occurred to me that someone I KNEW would do that to me! It just seemed like we were well matched. Yidwithlid rode the tide with me and continued to convince me he was 'trustworthy.' I had no reason to doubt him at the time.

8-Create Temptation
Lure the target deep into your seduction by creating the proper temptation: a glimpse of the pleasures to come. . Dangle the prize before their eyes, postponing satisfaction, and let their minds do the rest. The future seems ripe with possibility. Stimulate a curiosity stronger than the doubts and anxieties that go with it, and they will follow you.

(see #5 above for references here)

9-Keep Them in Suspense: What Comes Next
The only way to lead the seduced along and keep the upper hand is to create suspense, a calculated surprise. People love a mystery, and this is the key to luring them farther into your web. Behave in a way that leaves them wondering. Give the victim a thrill with a sudden change of direction.

The Target told us: Yidwithlid would disappear from IM for days or weeks. I am sure now he had me blocked. But it was usually after a very intense cybersex session.

His behavior was odd when I first knew him but now it was downright bizarre. He would initiate cybersex and I was having fun, yes - I went along. And then the next day if I brought it up or tried to be tender with him - he would act like it NEVER happened. As if he had NO IDEA what I was referring to. Then a few hours later he'd be wanting cybersex or phone sex with me - again, like the prior conversation never happened.

Once I told him I wasn't going to jump into bed with him without seeing him and spending some face time with him; that I wasn't some whore - he got very snippy with me and disappeared for over a month from IM. I never made that suggestion again because of my fear of abandonment.... and he knew it. (Yidwithlid played on this fear) When questioned he would blame everything on his Adult ADHD. (Yidwithlid: Im ADHD remember??)

Yidwithlid was a master at emotional and psychological torture.

10-Use the Demonic Power of Words to Sow Confusion
The trick to making them listen is to say what they want to hear, to fill their ears with whatever is pleasant to them. Inflame people's emotions with loaded phrases, flatter them, comfort their insecurities, envelop them in fantasies, sweet words, and promises, and not only will they listen to you, they will lose their will to resist you.

Keep your language vague, letting them read into it what they want.

From Target - The cybersex was absolutely mindblowing for a long time. I had never ever done that before ever!

Yidwithlid used our prior relationship to legitimize and sanitize it as the 'only safe way we could be together.' Yidwithlid said all the right things. And I would sometimes do a lot of talking with Yidwithlid just agreeing or going along - or saying nothing so he made it SEEM like he agreed - of course with all the responsibility on me for 'thinking' that way.

He'd built up my trust in him completely.


A friend of this site calls these loaded phrases 'sleeper bombs.' That is - sexual innuendo or promises or phrases that, at first, seem harmless but hours, days or weeks later they pop up in your head while you try to unravel them. See this post for a review of this manipulative technique.

"J": I will see you... when its safe

"J": Maybe we can have lunch next week (this was said many times with no follow up)

"J": Can I call you? I lost your number again

"J": You are special

"J": Please don't stop talking to me

"J": I need you

"J": I don't want to lose you out of my life. You're too important to me

Did we mention "J"/ Yidwithlid is an award winning SALESMAN/ MARKETING PROFESSIONAL?

11-Pay Attention to Detail
The details of a seduction-the subtle gestures, the offhand things you do-are often more charming and revealing. gestures that show the time and attention you are paying them. All of their senses are engaged in
the details you orchestrate.

"J": put on your headphones, I want to sing to you

"J": I sent you an article I knew you would like

"J": Here - I know you will like this (sends picture or article)

"J": this should perk you up (usually said after sending pictures of his penis!)

"J": I was thinking of you today and found this......

"J": The cybersex isn't without emotion for me... it's confusing - I don't know what to do.

"J": You know I have feelings for you.... (lost count of the times this line was used)

12-Poeticize Your Presence
Remain elusive, then, so that when you are away, they will yearn to see you again, and will only associate you with pleasant thoughts.

(please see reference to #9 above)

MORE TO COME........

yidwithlid