So, at bottom, the nature of the narcissist is the nature of a predator who preys on his own kind. The importance of that fact cannot be overstated. The brain of a predator just does not relate to the living soul of its prey. If you don't believe this, just watch PBS. Watch the behavior, and look into the eyes, of predatory animals while they're making a kill. There's nothing there. They are like machines at that moment. They must be, or they couldn't do it.
In other words, Nature has equipped them with hard-wired circuitry in the brain that takes over the moment prey is sighted when they are hungry. It suppresses what we could observe in that animal only a minute earlier while it was playing with its siblings or a waving leaf on a twig, tenderly nuzzling its offspring or mate. Perhaps it was even grieving over the death of a member of the pack. But that's all gone the moment it sights prey while hungry. Then suddenly it's a killing machine. It likes killing. Nature has endowed it with a taste for killing as necessary equipment for its survival. It even considers killing fun. Which is why we sometimes see in nature killing made sport: Chimpanzees (who don't eat meat) will gang-up on and attack a monkey, cruelly tearing it to pieces and having a blast over its heart-rending cries. Killer whales sometimes play with baby seals like a cat plays with a mouse. Wolves sometimes bring down and eviscerate prey they feed on the guts of till it dies and then walk away. Sorry, that's just the truth.
Humans are animals too and have that same predatory mode. Nature endowed us with it as hunters. It's in everyone. But in narcissists and sociopaths something has gone haywire. They go into this mode against their own kind. And they are permanently in this mode against all their own kind. Why? Because they don't view themselves as of our kind. They are of a superior kind. They think we are here to feed them, just as we think cattle are here to feed us. Correction: we do (or should) treat cattle humanely. We don't relate to them as objects like narcissists relate to us = like we relate to bugs or plants.
Compared to us, narcissists are gods. Alien beings. They can't help it. They are not to blame for feeling this way. Today the prognosis is poor. There is little sign of any real success in treating these people. Those who commit prosecutable offenses are repeat offenders — such as pedophile priests, sexual predators, and serial killers. They get this way as children and demonstrate it by torturing animals or murdering other children on a whim. Though they can't control their temptations, they CAN control their conduct. And this is what competent psychiatric care can really help them with. It can show them better ways to deal with their problems, making them resistant to temptation. In fact, I think it could build in some TRUE self-esteem to counterbalance their self hatred. (Lifelong treatment would be necessary to maintain it though.) And a lion tamer can walk into the lions' den. But they are still wild animals, so he can never be sure they won't give in to the temptation to attack the prey tantalizing them beyond their power to resist. We don't morally condemn those lions for being lions.
And the only thing more stupid and useless than morally condemning narcissists for being narcissists is trusting them. Don't tempt them. Just because a pedophile priest has behaved for the last five years doesn't mean he won't finally lose it and eat another altar boy. Indeed, it's cruel to tempt him daily thus! You wouldn't wave a bottle of whiskey in front of an alcoholic, would you? I don't see what's so difficult to understand about this. Talk therapy and/or punishment isn't the answer with PREDATORS.
We must do whatever it takes to minimize or eliminate their access to vulnerable prey as targets of opportunity. Period. For ever. Indeed, these people will thank us for it. Consider how many of them deliberately get themselves caught just to stop themselves.
Let's get a clue already and stop dangling bait before their eyes. There are many ways to do this: prison isn't the only one. For example, don't let him teach school or be a police officer. Don't give him power over his fellow employees. Don't elect him to be President for Life. Don't let him live off his parents till they die. Don't follow him on a purge to cleanse himself in the Holy Land. And if he steps over the line whack him, so that he thinks twice before doing it again.
And, especially, let's stop passing this curse from generation to generation by subjecting children to narcissistic parents. It takes the consent of the non-narcissistic parent for that to happen. So, just because your mother or father put up with it doesn't mean you should. If we began protecting the next generation today, this accursed cause of a vast amount of both the told and untold human suffering in this world would be gone in 50 years.
by Kathy Krajco
I agree that more needs to be done, identifying narcissists, and other abusive types. I have been involved with a narcissist, and the treatment they deliver when any kind of behavior of theirs is questioned, can be terrifying. They live inside themselves, and they will do anything to protect their great reputation in their work place or community, and in their own family. The more you try to make them understand they are wrong, the more angry and abusive they become. Only they matter in any situation. What others perceive of them is of the utmost importance, and they will abandon and alienate and degradate anyone who knows the truth of how they treat people who trust them intimately. I am greatful for all the information I am finding on the internet, that is helping me understand and heal. I will not cyber date anymore, the dating sites are full of narcissists, its a great place for them to remain invisible while seeking out more victims to use.
ReplyDeleteI found I had been working for a narcissist for over two years. I see now it was all part of a pattern of control for his benefit. I learned he was erratic, his thinking not always logical, that he often made himself look bad. He drove clients away.
ReplyDeleteI did not know what narcissism really was. I was just blindly suffering under it.
He would have never recognized he owed me. In his mind, I was a wrench but not the bolt.
I worked hard for him, my health started to go. He demanded it as if he was entitled to you working like a slave.
He confused and at the sametime fascinated you because you literally did not know what would happen next. He appeared strong. They are in fact confused. They have a charisma that fools you because of their false confidence. In fact they are scrambling all the time to be a success. They seek to control every situation to their advantage. They are driven.
He must be a classic case. No matter what I did he made me feel small, unimportant and demeaned. "I want this" was the feeling of everyday. The job was like a prison, your duty to serve him.
You have to get away from them to survive. There is no other way. They will continually seek to manipulate each and every situation and use you (and all others)as they see fit (if you let them). I saw that they hold no real value in others The face-to-face rage was the most difficult thing to deal with because it was just not called for. The lack of remorse afterward was another big confusion, a signal something was not right. So self-righteous, so condescending, so imperious. I had to play on over many bad moments and actions on his part. They are on all the time like a cat ready to pounce. The ever-present rudeness and surliness erupts instantaneously. You had to be on guard all the time re your thoughts or actions or he would literally attack you verbally. It was a trial believe me...all the time!
They select their words very carefully, building their statements to you and it is clear the wheels in their head never shut down. Any praise given to you is for a reason, not to make you feel good. They are teeing you up like a golf ball the whole time. They monitor you all the time. They should have something hung around their necks like a license plate to identify themselves, it was that bad; they damage people and do not recognize it. Neither do they care. They must be one of the big bad wolfs we were all warned about as kids. It is no joke , the fact they cannot admit to their own illness makes them like a disease that cannot be eradicated. Nature's ultimate self-defense! Heaven help anyone married to one! If you meet one, run the other way. They drive people away from themselves, will make no end of demands they consider reasonable and will see or wonder why the other person is wrong in the activities that caused their departure, yet will see no blame in themselves. There is no middle ground with them. Once you have been attacked by one and your eyes left moist by the verbal onslaught you will know that someting is terribly wrong but when they say, "Why are you blocking me from accomplishing what I want to achieve? Why are you not doing what I want done, what I have asked you to do, what you agreed to do?, (They will paint you into a corner with their actions and words.), you will know what stripes you are deaing with! It is a moment you will not forget. Cathy is correct, they think that they are the only ones that matter and we must leave them alone to stew in that. I saw evidence of how he would meet someone and try to determine and then use this individual for his benefit. When you see it many times as I did and now I understand why he did so, it makes one feel sick. I got out and now am the wiser. Everyone that meets him from now on until his death is a potential victim! Thanks, Ordinary Joe.
Good description Ordinary Joe. I just left a 2 yr. stint with a narcissist boss also. It took a while for me to realize it, but near the end, he was abusive, and even lied to our director. I am glad to be rid of him, but sadly got no credit or recognition for getting a job done, despite his interferences trying to stop me. Oh well, life is better without them!
ReplyDeleteCathy, I had the same pattern of abuse. It is always there under the surface and is unleashed as necessary, like a tool that sits idle until needed. (Early on in my employment, one day he said to me instantly over some misplaced papers, "I will kill you!".) The abuse ramps up at the period you begin to realize you cannot do what they want, give them what they want, start to fail them. They see this as they are always judging you and your contribution. At the same time, they increase the pressure on you in ways that are not always so direct but are nonetheless aimed at getting what they want from you. When they cannot get it, the bullying starts as they try to force their will on you. As they feel no remorse, see nothing of any depth from your point of view, it just keeps getting worse until you crack from the strain and get out. They will keep trying to work through you until you leave (and then even weeks later my Boss tried to get me to go back! No way, cut the umbilical... for good!) They are blind to what they are doing so the escalation seems accceptable to them. Meanwhile you have suffered and are confused by the changes, the directions, the requests, the persistent efforts to squeeze you like an orange to get what they want. You must leave to free yourself! The worst is that unaware,you do not know what is occurring and work on trying to satisfy them.
ReplyDeleteYou are played into their hands from the beginning of meeting them, sized up immediately as to whether you can be of use or not. This is key to recognize. If you are of no interest or this interest or usage value drops, they will seek to shunt you aside, discard you or replace you.
Looking back there are six(main?) ways you can identify a narcissist, one the overbearing arrogance and superiority (with putdowns), two the need to place themselves as central to a story, excluding others, three the placement or floating of ideas in their speaking for you to absorb that are really imminent guidelines, warnings or indicators of what they will want to follow (non-sequitors - they do not fit in at the time they are issued, come out of nowhere), four the personal, "in-your-face" rage attacks and visible gloating without remorse (with a palpable power in back of them, as if by their shoulder, it shows in their eyes),five when they do not know what to say, the voice tails off in meaningless murmurs, noises and splutters because for them it is not over as they will come back to the matter later when they have figured it out (you are literally on hold in their minds as they never see the matter ending until they are satisfied with what they can do to manipulate what it involved), six the extent of what they will sometimes request is absurd and unfair, beyond normal scope.
I think it is important to say that while one is involved with a narcissist, there are many things that go on that you will not understand. If blind to the presence of a narcissist, like I was, you will be deeply influenced but continually searching for understanding of what is taking place (without hope of finding reason). Thanks to the many articles on the web, I have been able to see how the descriptions and points applied to my situation. I have found insight and understanding that has cleared my mind as to what transpired. Otherwise I would be just left with those old ideas , that he was a jerk, etc. It has been a relief to see that a mental illness was involved and that I was an unsuspecting victim, even though a secondary one, as the individual himself was the main one, the real man in ONGOING pain, searching for success.
It is sad they are unlikely to be helped in their own unawareness and self-righteousness.
Once again, thank you Cathy and this site, time to move on with my life, Ordinary Joe.
Joe,have you seen Johanna Ashmum's website? http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/
ReplyDeleteShe really helped me after a 2 year relationship I was thrown out of, quite brutally by an NPD. Since then I've learned a lot, and it started with her well written words. But NPDs still come on as the nicest people around, and it takes time to ID them. I am careful and take my time to trust these days.
There is also a Johanna Ashmum memorial page on FB I keep in touch with. I think one thing I have enjoyed, is seeing that there are genuinely kind and caring people like us, who seem to have been attracted to or been victimized in some way by, an NPD.
I just pray my next job experience doesn't involve one, tho, I feel they are very good at rising to manager level, they're good at convincing.
2 of my last 3 jobs were spent with seriously ill NPD managers. Seems the odds are not in my favor for sure.
Cathy, thank you, I fell into a JOB trap, one in which I invited myself. I first approached him, fooled by a GLOWING website image. Narcissists are like cats about to pounce at any instant, quick to assess you, then they act in their favour but not yours. I missed the small signs on the website FOR HIS COMPANY that should have told me he was too much absorbed with self rather than the client.
ReplyDeleteI was ill-prepared, ignorant, maybe even over-confident that things would somehow work out, so went in blind.
I went into my interview situation too casually without having my parameters of what I was willing to accept established.
So much of what he did fits the information outlined on the web articles. It is scary! I could write a book with my present insights, none of which I had before! It all fits now.
To be forewarned is to forearmed,I think now we can spot them, recognize one quickly. (One women said she knew immediately upon meeting him.)
Others who met him sensed the presence of an extreme individual and chose either to stay involved with him or essentially fled the scene as fast as possible.
In this sense, I must think some people are very good at knowing what they like and do not like and what they wish to interact with. A sort of sixth sense guards these people who flee. They see beyond the veneer of sham niceness that is acted out, that you mentioned. (Narcissists go up and down like a barometer with this phony niceness, ready to be angry at any time. Wow, it was amazing how he could turn up so fast!)
This occurred many times with him, (people moving on). I could sense it (why), this knowing by people they should get out of his clutches but I could not define the real reason why.
I was too stubborn. I knew I was tough, could work with almost everyone, I had done many things in life that told me that, so I always knew I would survive, it really became a question of how much pain and frustration I could endure, when would I finally say to myself, I do not need this anymore, enough of this guy and move on.
But all through this, I did not understand the complexity of how he was manipulating me and shrouding me with his vision (yes!), ideas, demands, orders, requests, counsel, asides, and guidelines to keep me wrapped up doing what he wanted to achieve. He created a value system and rosy picture of money to be made that kept me going, but which I only saw later would never have been possible to receive.
I can laugh a bit at this. I always could because no relief was going to come from him; I had to generate it myself. I hope you can laugh too Cathy. (I know I cried after. It helps.)
At times, in life there are moments like you feel as if you are in a movie, seeing things unfold around you, a bit dreamlike, asking what will come next, a bit detached. This was such a case. I was along for the ride and when the ride finally got to much, I got off. I ended it, was not thrown out, (pushed out yes) so in that I can feel positive. We need to be proactive.
Cathy in future, we have to know ourselves better, define what we want and go after it and if someone we meet seems too controlling or too cheap, too manipulative, too easily mean, too selfish, too shallow, too intense, has a strange look in their eyes, doesn't adress or listen to what we want width much vigour or interest, then don't stay in the seat they offer, move on too. Decide with our feet.
Learn our lesson from others, if you can't beat them, avoid them! We will know when we meet them, we have to assume that. Look for the good ones and avoid the bad. Look for people with genuine warmth and happiness. Surround ourselves with legitimate success.
Ordinary Joe
Hello, Ordinary Joe here again, as I have just reread this several times, months after posting it, I want to say that the points that I came to realize and have tried to pass on for others are to me anyway still valid. They still echo. With time, I see no reduction in their validity and hopefully their value and meaning for others. I encourage others to add to them for others to benefit.
ReplyDeleteMy one big regret, I wish I had been more knowing while I was employed with that man. I could have ended my suffering much earlier. It was suffering for sure. He really took me!
I don't feel responsible but I do see now even more so how I was taken in and used. I see now that he used me more than I realized when I first wrote the above letters. Is that not amazing? Things were even worse than I had thought!
I must admit I am still angry toward him, despite his being a victim, but content myself with never being involved with him again. This is my solace. He haunts me yet, because I could still run into him. That fact alone still creates worry because it would be unpleasant. I know he would be trying again to control the moment. I do not want to give him that or to experience it again. It is evil. I see it as a certainty on his part.
Cathy said one thing that I did not touch upon with any degree of comment and that is the amount of lying and the deceit a narcissist will use to manipulate someone or a situation. This is there and it is used like a tool, when needed it is employed and then set aside. This helps them and leaves you more vulnerable to their manipulating. Again, because they see it as necessary, useful and feel no remorse, they will do it. Legal remedies are what they respect, or power greater than theirs (mental, physical, or by experience), otherwise if they think they can get away with something,I think they will do it.
The other thing that is really key to recognize and understand is just how good they are at reading people and knowing what people will do. Since they are always thinking, their minds are always on, they continually accumulate, practice and develop even more knowledge and insight to use on the relative innocents around them. I cannot say how important this is in their activities and decsion-making re what they want to get from you. They never turn-off so they become very adept with "working" you. They want to control, have power and use you! Never forget this.
They seek power because underneath they are unsure of themselves. Power must give them a feeling of ability, a feeling that they can succeed, not fail, to be the success they want so badly.
One mental health agency said it is quite common for them to receive complaints about mentally ill employers. Bear that in mind in your travels. The women I asked said they hear about these things all the time. So I was not unique.
Clearly there is much need for improvement...somehow! Governments need to investigate this aspect in our society, that narcissists are out there inflictng themselves on endless numbers of victims. Is it a hidden criminal activity of a sort?
Take care,Ordinary Joe, (but learning).
Hidden criminal activity is a hallmark of sociopaths.
ReplyDelete