We put had 2 posts on Mike Campbell on hold until this matter was settled. Campbell and his attorney have used the law to VICTIMIZE just one of his victims and drag her to court to get all postings removed (as if she controls the internet!)
They made many promises to drop it all if we took the postings down. At the request of the victims, we did so - yet NOTHING WAS DROPPED. One abused & used victim already suffering from PTSD is being dragged into court by Campbell & his attorney near the end of June 2007 anyway!
FRIDAY, JUNE 29, 2007 CAMPBELL IS DRAGGING ONE VICTIM TO COURT TO PROVE HE DID NOTHING SERIOUSLY WRONG AND SHE WAS AT FAULT TOO!! HIS ATTORNEY WANTS HER TO SIGN A STATEMENT FULL OF TWISTED FACTS AND SHE WON'T! - SUPPORT THIS VICTIM - YOU CAN WRITE HER VIA US AT CYBERPATHS@GMAIL.COM
Apparently Mr. Campbell has decided to use the legal system to further traumatize his victims by suing for telling their story saying that it caused him emotional & financial harm. CAMPBELL even got his poor, cheated-on wife to commit perjury and LIE for him! (This according to our legal research sources) Probably no more affairs and one-niters for this predator. BOO HOO
Campbell and his attorney wanted all the postings about him taken down:
1. EOPC doesn't control the whole internet and we are not responsible if other sites pick up on our postings and
2. EOPC has NEVER heard from Campbell or his attorney. So to hold any of his VICTIMS responsible is punitive and petty.
The truth is out and will stay out. We believe Campbell could better utilize his funds with intensive psychiatric counseling to find out why he needs to prey on vulnerable women and help him stop.
Anyone who wishes to contact this victim to offer advice or support can do so via our email at: cyberpaths@gmail.com
Thank you
Friday, June 29, 2007
PROSTITUTION THRIVES ON THE INTERNET
(posting this in light of our boy "J"/GRIDNEY/ YidwithLid's sex-addiction and his love of high-price hookers [remember once he lost his job and couldn't go to hookers.... he turned someone he hadn't bothered with in 27 years just to use & toy with her, and subsequently her friends. Target #1 said she asked him about hookers in one of their FIRST conversations and he just lied to her repeatedly. Internet sex addicts see others as sex-toys.... not people]
Sex addiction is progressive - the addict needs more and more and doesn't care who he hurts or uses. The internet has made it far too easy for johns/ hobbyists/ addicts... and their objectified view of other people carries into the real & online 'lives' affecting everyone they come in contact with, sooner or later. - Fighter)
by Mike Brunker
Demonstrating the adaptability that helped earn it the title of "world's oldest profession," prostitution is thriving on the Internet, slipping into comfortable new guises like sex-for-money chatrooms and Web sites showcasing fancy call girls and boys (escorts or providers).
But with the continued expansion of the online sex trade, and the appearance of numerous civilian vigilante groups determined to halt its spread, pressure is building to rein in the hustlers and hookers of cyberspace.
The use of the Internet to advertise prostitution has received far less attention from law enforcement, politicians and the media than its notorious cousin, online pornography.
Crusaders like Pete Hampton, a former lawman who established the Web Police to serve as an online clearing house for complaints of online criminal activity, say that when they attempt to bring prostitution cases to the attention of authorities, they are often met with indifference. (Dorsky had sites of scantily dressed women, lingerie bots and 'schoolgirl' type photos in his internet repetoire - as part of his SCRIPT)
"We find very few will even touch it," Hampton said.
A difficult issue
Federal cases have almost exclusively focused on cases involving children, but local authorities are beginning to demonstrate a limited interest in virtual vice, such as on Craigslist.
Police in Florida, Nebraska and New Jersey have in recent months busted at least five online "escort" services that allegedly were providing sex for money. Only one involved minors: A case in Palm Beach County, Fla., in which 27-year-old Jay Ryan Quinn stands accused of prostituting underage runaway girls through his Web site.
Though there are no numbers to quantify the prevalence of prostitution operations on the Internet, as neither the federal government nor the states keep track of such cases.
But Hampton, of the (now defunct) Web Police, says he and his staff receive an average of 50 to 75 reports of prostitution each week out of a total of 1,500 complaints.
Echoing the complaints of police departments around the world, Hampton says he and his staff engage in triage to focus on the most important cases -- those involving children.
A decoy's view
Donna, a volunteer undercover decoy who lures chatroom pedophiles into the arms of police, says anyone who doubts how widespread the online sex trade has become should try posing as a 15-year-old girl in an adult chatroom like AOL's "Barely Legal" forum.
The question of law enforcement priorities is often central to debate over prosecution of prostitution, and the issue already has surfaced in connection with the case of "Nancy of Nebraska," an Omaha woman arrested in January for running an "escort service" in cyberspace.
According to testimony at the trial of Nancy P., 46, a vice squad officer posing as a visiting businessman arranged a date with her, had a limo to pick her up and drive her to the airport, where he emerged from a waiting Lear jet. Then, after serving her several glasses of Asti Spumante during the ride back to his hotel, he took her to his room and offered her cash in exchange for sex.
No sooner did Nancy agree, according to the testimony, than six police officers burst into the room with guns drawn and placed her under arrest.
Though it turned out the limo and jet were donated for use in the sting, a taxpayers group has accused the Omaha vice squad of going to excessive lengths to dismantle Prout's one-woman operation.
Not surprisingly, such tactics also are viewed as excessive by prostitutes, who say the Internet gives them the ability to take control of their financial situation and eliminate the middle man.
After initially placing an advertisement on a Web site that hosts numerous escort ads, she learned HTML and designed and built her own home page, which drew an average of 10 to 20 inquiries a day from potential customers.
"I learned a lot about working for myself, marketing, sales," said Rachel, who spoke on condition she not be identified by her real name.
But others say that few prostitutes are in a position to take advantage of the technology.
The worldwide sex trade
Hughes, who has studied the Internet's role in furthering prostitution as education and research coordinator for The Coalition Against Trafficking in Women, a consulting agency to the United Nations, said that traffickers in sex have been quick to utilize the benefits of the Net.
She said that in addition to prostitutes and pimps, the sex tourism industry, which organizes trips centered around visits to brothels in countries like the Philippines and Thailand, and some so-called mail-order bride operations are using the Web and news groups to attract. In many cases, she said, their advertising is "encoded" in order to avoid scrutiny from authorities, but it's clear what product they are offering.
She said attempts to persuade U.S. authorities to prosecute two companies offering such tours have so far been unsuccessful.
One of the most degrading uses of the Net, Hughes said, are websites in which customers rate prostitutes' performance "as if they are completely a commodity." ("J"/GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid did this, remember? Showing his blatant misogyny and using women like blow-up dolls. Then he'd be Mr. Religious - Family Man - Political Pundit and smear anyone who spoke up about him. Many times of the online predator is a sex addict - there is more than just an online affair going on!)
Hughes said that the Coalition Against Trafficking in Women has recommended that all forms of sexual exploitation -- including pornography -- be considered human rights violations and that action be taken to halt them, "just as we are now taking actions to try to stop the battering of women and sexual abuse or sexual assault of women."
"The view that we take is not to just see this as some sort of speech or expression, but to go what is happening to the women," she said. "No one talks about prostitution as being a form of free speech. It's an actual act that happens. And whether a man is paying a woman in a room or whether he's paying over the Internet, nonetheless he is buying some sort of an act. Therefore we don't see that as being in the realm of free speech."
A Constitutional conflict
But Shari Steele, an attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, said such an approach would not pass muster in the United States.
We will post more about this issue of sex & the internet -- fueled by phenomena like the 'online disinhibition effect' in coming months. This will be yet another window in the addictive and empathy-less minds of Cyberpaths. And we will continue to talk about some of our past predators and their insidious patterns of use, abuse, conning and running away - Fighter)
THE INTERNET ESCORT'S HANDBOOK
PROSTITUTION ON CRAIGSLIST
The Web Opens a Whole New World to the Sex-Addicted and Rationalizing It
yidwithlid
Sex addiction is progressive - the addict needs more and more and doesn't care who he hurts or uses. The internet has made it far too easy for johns/ hobbyists/ addicts... and their objectified view of other people carries into the real & online 'lives' affecting everyone they come in contact with, sooner or later. - Fighter)
by Mike Brunker
Demonstrating the adaptability that helped earn it the title of "world's oldest profession," prostitution is thriving on the Internet, slipping into comfortable new guises like sex-for-money chatrooms and Web sites showcasing fancy call girls and boys (escorts or providers).
But with the continued expansion of the online sex trade, and the appearance of numerous civilian vigilante groups determined to halt its spread, pressure is building to rein in the hustlers and hookers of cyberspace.
The use of the Internet to advertise prostitution has received far less attention from law enforcement, politicians and the media than its notorious cousin, online pornography.
Crusaders like Pete Hampton, a former lawman who established the Web Police to serve as an online clearing house for complaints of online criminal activity, say that when they attempt to bring prostitution cases to the attention of authorities, they are often met with indifference. (Dorsky had sites of scantily dressed women, lingerie bots and 'schoolgirl' type photos in his internet repetoire - as part of his SCRIPT)
"We find very few will even touch it," Hampton said.
A difficult issue
"It's hard to bring this issue to an investigative agency's attention," agreed Linda Fairstein, chief of the sex crimes prosecution unit of the Manhattan District Attorney's Office. "...Government resources, especially with local police agencies, don't begin to compare with what what Web-literate people can do in terms of crime, prostitution in many ways being the least of it."Federal authorities, however, insist that they have quietly been pursuing the most serious cases for some time.
Federal cases have almost exclusively focused on cases involving children, but local authorities are beginning to demonstrate a limited interest in virtual vice, such as on Craigslist.
Police in Florida, Nebraska and New Jersey have in recent months busted at least five online "escort" services that allegedly were providing sex for money. Only one involved minors: A case in Palm Beach County, Fla., in which 27-year-old Jay Ryan Quinn stands accused of prostituting underage runaway girls through his Web site.
Though there are no numbers to quantify the prevalence of prostitution operations on the Internet, as neither the federal government nor the states keep track of such cases.
But Hampton, of the (now defunct) Web Police, says he and his staff receive an average of 50 to 75 reports of prostitution each week out of a total of 1,500 complaints.
Echoing the complaints of police departments around the world, Hampton says he and his staff engage in triage to focus on the most important cases -- those involving children.
"We have to prioritize," he said. "... If this is simply a matter of a call girl service or an individual female advertising her services on the Internet, and she's of legal age of consent, this is not a priority case. If this is someone advertising child prostitution or selling children on the Internet, it does become a priority case."
Donna, a volunteer undercover decoy who lures chatroom pedophiles into the arms of police, says anyone who doubts how widespread the online sex trade has become should try posing as a 15-year-old girl in an adult chatroom like AOL's "Barely Legal" forum.
"I can count to 10, and by that time I'm already being hit on," said Donna, who asked that her last name not be used to diminish the threat of retaliation from those she has helped prosecute. "... Individuals are coming in and sending me private messages asking me, 'Do I like 40-year-old men?' ... and asking me about different sexual situations. I've had them mail me plane tickets. I've had them offer me their condo on the beach if I just come stay for the week. Anything, anything that a child will want.In the Quinn case, the tip that launched the investigation came from one of the alleged hookers. But more and more often, citizen vigilantes like Donna and agencies that focus on sexual abuse of children are playing a key role in bringing prostitution cases to the attention of authorities -- and in particular, those that involve minors.
"If you're a troubled teenager, it's an absolutely easy way to make quick money. ... You can almost have an auction. You can sit there and say, 'Well, this guy just offered me 50 bucks.' 'Well then, I'll offer you $100.' And she can barter herself and set the time and place. How easy is that?"
"We do see ... (situations where) children are actually enticed by individuals on the Internet to come meet them," he said. "Then they realize ... that the individual falsely represented themselves, they're stuck somewhere ... They have to find food and shelter and the only basic commodity they have to sell is themselves."Staff members at the center process the leads received on the tip line, then forward the information to the relevant law enforcement agency, Rodriguez said.
The question of law enforcement priorities is often central to debate over prosecution of prostitution, and the issue already has surfaced in connection with the case of "Nancy of Nebraska," an Omaha woman arrested in January for running an "escort service" in cyberspace.
According to testimony at the trial of Nancy P., 46, a vice squad officer posing as a visiting businessman arranged a date with her, had a limo to pick her up and drive her to the airport, where he emerged from a waiting Lear jet. Then, after serving her several glasses of Asti Spumante during the ride back to his hotel, he took her to his room and offered her cash in exchange for sex.
No sooner did Nancy agree, according to the testimony, than six police officers burst into the room with guns drawn and placed her under arrest.
Though it turned out the limo and jet were donated for use in the sting, a taxpayers group has accused the Omaha vice squad of going to excessive lengths to dismantle Prout's one-woman operation.
"The Nebraska Taxpayers Association does not condone what Nancy P. did or is doing with her Web site," said the organization's president, John Folsom. "Our position is that the police department ... were not good stewards with the taxpayers' dollars in spending the resources that were spent to have her arrested on a misdemeanor charge."Nancy P. was sentenced to only four months probation, an $800 fine and 48 hours of community service. (also most johns or hobbyists - are charged with solicitation, which is a class B misdemeanor and can be dealt with by paying a fine or lawyering your way out of it. And if you are the client of high-end hookers? The chances you will even have to go to 'john school' or do any community service? Nil. Therefore the demand-side goes on unscathed.)
Not surprisingly, such tactics also are viewed as excessive by prostitutes, who say the Internet gives them the ability to take control of their financial situation and eliminate the middle man.
"I was without a job, then worked briefly for $5 an hour while I was going to graduate school and working on my master's," Rachel, who set up her own Web site to advertise her escort service in the Midwest, told MSNBC. "I just wasn't making ends meet so I thought 'I'll try this.' "
"I learned a lot about working for myself, marketing, sales," said Rachel, who spoke on condition she not be identified by her real name.
But others say that few prostitutes are in a position to take advantage of the technology.
"There are so few ... women who are in control of what's happening to them," said Donna M. Hughes, director of women's studies at the University of Rhode Island. "And I think the idea that there are lots of high-class call girls out there that are total in control of their own lives is either a myth or only represents a very tiny minority of the women. The vast majority of women that we're talking about around the world are much closer to conditions of slavery."
Hughes, who has studied the Internet's role in furthering prostitution as education and research coordinator for The Coalition Against Trafficking in Women, a consulting agency to the United Nations, said that traffickers in sex have been quick to utilize the benefits of the Net.
She said that in addition to prostitutes and pimps, the sex tourism industry, which organizes trips centered around visits to brothels in countries like the Philippines and Thailand, and some so-called mail-order bride operations are using the Web and news groups to attract. In many cases, she said, their advertising is "encoded" in order to avoid scrutiny from authorities, but it's clear what product they are offering.
She said attempts to persuade U.S. authorities to prosecute two companies offering such tours have so far been unsuccessful.
One of the most degrading uses of the Net, Hughes said, are websites in which customers rate prostitutes' performance "as if they are completely a commodity." ("J"/GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid did this, remember? Showing his blatant misogyny and using women like blow-up dolls. Then he'd be Mr. Religious - Family Man - Political Pundit and smear anyone who spoke up about him. Many times of the online predator is a sex addict - there is more than just an online affair going on!)
Hughes said that the Coalition Against Trafficking in Women has recommended that all forms of sexual exploitation -- including pornography -- be considered human rights violations and that action be taken to halt them, "just as we are now taking actions to try to stop the battering of women and sexual abuse or sexual assault of women."
"The view that we take is not to just see this as some sort of speech or expression, but to go what is happening to the women," she said. "No one talks about prostitution as being a form of free speech. It's an actual act that happens. And whether a man is paying a woman in a room or whether he's paying over the Internet, nonetheless he is buying some sort of an act. Therefore we don't see that as being in the realm of free speech."
A Constitutional conflict
But Shari Steele, an attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, said such an approach would not pass muster in the United States.
"At least in the United States, there are numerous laws at both the federal and state level to deal with pornography," she said. "Obscenity is really the purview of the states to make a determination whether it is permitted or not. Indecency is federal protected under the U.S. Constitution. Child pornography is absolutely illegal. So any call for there being extra restrictions are really going to run afoul of the First Amendment here in the United States."The biggest obstacles to prosecution of international prostitution rings are the patchwork of laws and customs governing sale of sexual services and the Internet, said Hampton of the Web Police.
"Many law enforcement agencies don't even know how to address crime on the Internet, let alone prove whether a child is above or below the age of consent in the country where they live," he said.With concerted international action unlikely in the foreseeable future, prosecution of Internet-based prostitution rings and individual escorts, massage practitioners and other euphemistically named sex practitioners appears likely to increase in fits and starts as local police agencies become more aware of what is being sent out to the world from their own back yard.
"In almost every case ... when it's time for the meeting, they get nervous and they'll say, 'I hope to God you're not a cop, but I can’t not meet you.'(Sex compulsives don't care - Cyberpaths into sexual luring will tell women anything (click here for that) - and if they also spend money on hookers - they will convince their partners, families, jobs, police - it was all a lie or 'just a jealous, scorned woman and go RIGHT BACK and do it again.... just be a lot more sneaky about it!)
We will post more about this issue of sex & the internet -- fueled by phenomena like the 'online disinhibition effect' in coming months. This will be yet another window in the addictive and empathy-less minds of Cyberpaths. And we will continue to talk about some of our past predators and their insidious patterns of use, abuse, conning and running away - Fighter)
THE INTERNET ESCORT'S HANDBOOK
PROSTITUTION ON CRAIGSLIST
The Web Opens a Whole New World to the Sex-Addicted and Rationalizing It
yidwithlid
Wednesday, June 27, 2007
gridney/ YidwithLid: SEX ADDICT/PREDATOR - FINALLY REVEALED.
Please note, as we have said before we will not publish false statements or speculation. We check. Everything we have here has been legally verified and documentation has been submitted. Our comments are in purple - Fighter
Target #1: "I felt mortified, like a bad joke, stupid and ugly. I hadn't been able to listen to my gut in almost two years after all the brainwashing he'd put me through. I would ask Yidwithlid point blank questions and he CONTINUED to lie to me. Again, I fully admit what I did was wrong. Very wrong and I take full responsibility. I was in a very deep depression and I now know after all my counseling coerced and mind controlled by an expert predator - but it was still wrong. I pray for his wife and kids a lot.
I couldn't sleep, I was vomiting all the time, I was getting my kids to & from school but that was about it, my ex-husband thought I had lost my mind. I was at the doctor a lot or the E.R. and very very sedated. I couldn't drive and after a time I unplugged my computer & even destroyed some of the peripherals.
Yidwithlid THREATENED me and told me in an email I that he was going to help my ex-husband take my children away. All for simply telling the truth.... I was destroyed. Target #2 suggested I call his office, and Target #2 gave me the number. In the middle of the night and left him a voicemail calling him a predator. That was harassing & childish, I know. Now I realize he's probably sociopathic and this is what they do.
I wasn't angry, I was out of my mind with guilt and pain about where I had - in my depression and loneliness - allowed this man to take me. (Don't beat yourself up Target #1. He's a predator. Predators hunt the wounded. You were wounded - he knew it - and he took advantage of that and your prior relationship and moved in for the predator-hypnosis to get you to bypass your common sense. Your only mistake was really caring about & trusting him.)
TARGET #1s letter regarding his apology; which we previously posted; to Yidwithlid/GRIDNEY:
VERIZON HEADER
(verified)
From: (deleted) @verizon.net
Date: 2004/03/27 Sat AM 11:55:21 EDT
To: gridney@att.net
Subject:
Thank you for your apology Yidwithlid. But, it is time for your reality check.
YOU have been selfish? You think THAT’s the problem?
No, Yidwithlid. You owe me for the hours I have spent with my therapists and the time I spent with Detective (deleted) at the 11Xth Precinct. You are now registered in the local & federal files. There is nowhere to run Yidwithlid. Cut the personal pity party.
You took things I said to you out of deep love, and used them on Target #2 to create the “illusion of intimacy.” Because you aren’t human. You aren’t a real person so you ABSORBED MY PERSONALITY. You took my catch phrases and patterns and either mirrored them to me or to Target #2. Because you are too hollow and soul-less. Yes I am still married on paper and yes, what I did was not right. But you kept reeling me in with guilt. You STOLE Me. No, you savaged ME.
A few weeks ago you said to me (as you had many times & I IGNORED it) “Target #1, I am sick… you don’t know me… I need help …. You don’t know how sick I am.” For once you were right. You took me to an internet porn site where you were role playing. It was disturbing but I ignored it, as abused women do. You have masturbated on camera to me (the camera YOUR WIFE GAVE YOU FOR YOUR BIRTHDAY), sent me pictures of your penis, sent me porn movies and images. None of them did I ask for. You assaulted me. No Yidwithlid, let me call it what my therapist did – RAPE. R A P E. You RAPED me. I am being treated as a RAPE victim.
Your kids? You owe me for the therapy sessions my kids have had and will have about you. Do you remember the phone sex you had with me the night of the Aaron Carter concert? You just WAITING for (your wife) and the kids to be out of the house!!! I didn't talk but YOU SURE DID! And there were times you had cyber or voice sex with me when the KIDS WERE HOME IN THE HOUSE. And I know you did it WHILE YOU WERE AT WORK. You showed depraved indifference to your wife, me, TARGET #2 and worst of all YOUR OWN CHILDREN.
You are a monster. You are not even fit to be called human. Your wife is throwing up? I wish I was there to hold her hand. Me? Well I know you don't care but - I haven’t slept or eaten much in 2 weeks, I vomit to the point my esophagus spasms now without provocation, I have had 2 mild seizures and have tremors, my heart is racing so fast my doctors fear a stroke. I have been to the hospital 3 times. Oh yes, my doctors all know everything too – in case something happens to me. This is what you have done to your old “friend.” The "friend" you told Target #2 “never helped” you.
Your response is still all about you – with next to NO acknowledgment or owning of your behavior. Profoundly sorry? Is that supposed to cover it? Since your words are garbage I think not. I BEGGED you to be a real friend to me, to see me, to have an OPEN relationship with me. Let me meet your friends. You even had lunch with me BLOCKS AWAY from your office – so no one would SEE????? Your eyes darting around the room like I was too awful to be seen with. I begged you for normalcy. BEGGED.
When things came down with my estranged husband, you RAN from me to PROTECT YOUR OWN ASS. (My estranged husband) tried to contact you and you RAN!! You were sooooo worried about your wife finding out. I took beatings IN YOUR NAME, stuck by you out of friendship and once my estranged husband knew and keylogged me the abuse is even worse. Doctors & the police know this also. A real person would have stepped up to the plate and been there for me at least emotionally. We would have worked it out rather than perpetuating the extreme harm you caused me. But no – you were leading a double & triple life. If you call that life. All the times you said you had to go or were off to bed and were still online for hours later. Not just recently but for the last 2 years. What were you doing Yidwithlid? And with who else? Who else has fallen victim? (the police told her later - hookers, phone sex operators and online live porn girls)
Quitting the XXX board was selfish? You got online to tell me “you would be so proud of me – I quit the board today” O God, I told you - you 'needed less stress and to do the right thing.' What ELSE are you going to blame me for? What are you TELLING people about me? All lies too?
I keep reviewing college as well as the last two years to see what CLUES I missed, what I didn’t see, what happened. Where I made the sin of ENABLING you. You have over the last 2 years, driven me to the brink of suicide more than once. You think it was because of my problems with (my estranged husband) that I was so depressed? Think again, if you are capable of thinking of anyone other than yourself.
And how pathetic am I? Was there for you anytime you wanted to just talk. And you wouldn’t return it to me. You dangled it, told me you wanted me to 'feel better', you implied it – even when you were married and HAD NO RIGHT TO. Yes, I am still legally married too and I was dead wrong. But all to feed your Ego.
No Yidwithlid, this isn’t about hurt and jealousy and sex addiction. I know your wife hates me as you have probably painted a ****ed up picture of me but she deserved to know. Any wife or mother would. And I am sorry beyond belief for hurting her.
The protection of myself and my children is first and foremost and I demand this from you to be able to accomplish this. TRUTH. No more embellishment. Share it with everyone. Your wife, me, Target #2 your clergyman, your therapist. Stop the pity party for poor little Yidwithlid. Go look in the mirror and attempt some empathy for what you are doing and have done to me. The ultimate harm.
Target #1 continues - My precinct referred me to the main Computer Crimes Squad.
I took the IM threat Yidwithlid had sent me and the conversations between Yidwithlid and I that my ex-husband had hacked off our computer for months. I was saving stuff now because Yidwithlid completely raged at me and it scared me. Target #2 kept reminding me to save everything now.
The hate he'd truly had for me all those years had finally come out. I was "all bad" and he was going to punish me. I was terrified for my children.
I was starting to feel that maybe because he couldn't lie anymore he'd do more than smear me - he'd find a way to physically harm me.
I went to Computer Crimes and sat with 2 nice detectives. They punched his online nickname in. I remember one of them glancing at me and telling me to take a look. The screen was turned towards me as they entered a review board of some sort. My heart stopped and I stopped breathing for a minute. I had taken this person at his word because I knew him, and had for years! Was this him? There it was, online for all to see.The sickening truth was right there.....
(Fox News reported that during period of high male unemployment, hits to sites like PornHub.com tripled)
The detectives then went to a few other similar sites and he was on a couple of those too.
It was him, no doubt. Same nickname, same bad spelling and grammar and same sick sarcastic, objectified language.
I am no prude but it was a real slap to see the acronyms and misogynistic terms in which he described these women (who had their prices and what they would do for this money listed also - and it was VERY expensive!).
And the terms Yidwithlid used, the acronyms, the things they did - the GFE (the police told me that was the "girlfriend experience" - where the whore treats the john like her "boyfriend" for 50 mins!!) It was pathetic!
Everything was a lie. EVERYTHING - anything he said to his family, his clergy, his office, to me, to Target #2 and even to himself - was a lie. All his moral lectures to me, his writing about politics & religion... his holier than thou attitude towards me at the end...
(Yidwithlid/ Yid with lid/ GRIDNEY has since attempted to remove and erase these reviews and say they never existed but archive.org and other archival net services have it all, including his credit card and IP addresses. Also, note in the ad for TER we have above the words "its nice to share" - Sammy Benoit / Yid with lid GRIDNEY used that 'SHARE' phrase in his early chats with Target #1! - Predators usually lie non-stop to the point that it becomes a way of life for them. Scary part is - due to their disorder they come to BELIEVE their lies so much that studies show they pass lie detector tests. So separating the calculated lie from the compulsive lie is almost impossible.)
"I felt faint and was taken by a woman from Victim's Witness to the bathroom to splash water on my face. I promptly threw up again. The police had a victim's advocate come talk to me who asked me for the name of the therapist I saw for the abuse I was getting from my ex-husband. She told me she'd call her because it might be a good idea for me to get medication or go away for a while. She told me I was white as a sheet.
Yes, I had had some cybersex with him - only him - and that was it. I wasn't hiring hookers or looking at porn. It was just him! And if I didn't know him I would never have done it. (She didn't know yet she'd been seduced & brainwashed & mind controlled!!)
Yidwithlid was into more. MUCH more.
The detectives called Target #2 for her address and said they would get everything to her for verification.
"The detectives they were busy printing things out and made me a disc of everything. They thanked me profusely and said they now had good information as part of another ongoing major investigation. But they wouldn't tell me what and frankly, I'd heard enough. They gave me their cards, asked me to sign some things about having my email traced in case Yidwithlid tried to write me again and to monitor my IMs. I asked them to consider not prosecuting him for soliciting hookers because of his wife & kids. I had done enough and I didn't want innocent people hurt.
Yidwithlid had told me he was "sick and needed help." Heck yes he WAS!! Yidwithlid even used the adventures he had with these sex actresses as scenarios for cybersex!!
The terminologies he used for intimacy, the body parts and other sexual acts was really twisted. Yidwithlid talked about these women like they were tissues to be used and tossed away. The same way he'd treated me! Yid with lid only had one bad prostitute experience - about the same time he had told me he was in the hospital for angina, after which he blabbed to me about his marital relations with his wife a couple days later. Another purposely cruel and heartless moment - as well as it NOT BEING MY BUSINESS. (no boundaries and inappropriate for this Target or anyone to hear. In our opinion, typical cyberpath emotional & mental cruelty. They get off on doing this to their victims and purposely hurting them.)
Here Yidwithlid was online BRAGGING about sex with whores, and how much they "liked" him. (they liked his Amex card, probably) It was just off-the-charts.
And he kept on using that SAME OLD 'gridney' NICKNAME. Yidwithlid just couldn't keep him mouth shut OR even think up a different identity to protect his own family. (Typical predator arrogance)
And as far as I was concerned, Yid with lid found me disposable. He NEVER cared about me one single bit. I filled in time when he didn't have the money for the pros. He only wrote to me because we had sex a couple times in college and his online ADs for casual sex didn't pan out and he couldn't afford hookers at that time. He could have cared less about the abortion I even had for him. I wasn't really ever in his picture. I was just on his computer - when HE felt like it.
Readers, that's what you are to these men - not a LOVE object, but a sex and online fun object.)
More from Target #1: "The men on these sites were incredible! Victims Advocacy called it 'paid gang rape.' You pay for a high-price hooker, do all sorts of nasty things with them... O.K. - but then you get on a board to TELL OTHER MEN WHAT YOU DID and RATE EACH GIRL'S PERFORMANCE. I wondered if he had been checked for ORAL STDS too. Or germs carried for months on the skin?
I also got very scared for his wife. Figuring he'd already dragged my name through the mud to her and blamed me for everything - I couldn't very well just call her up.
Yidwithlid had called my first letter to her "prose." He probably did a wonderful tap-dance of what a liar I was. His wife would never want to speak to me after my involvement as well. Yidwithlid would make very sure of that.
To the sex-addict/cyberpath - any person is good to go... a blow up doll with a pulse, or words on their computers. That's all. - Fighter)
"Target #2 sent the police a homemade porn video Yidwithlid had emailed her that she swore she never asked for! Target #2 told me she'd sent it to the FBI as well because it was so distrubing. (but they did nothing)
The detectives called me a few days later after did a little more searching and turned up phone sex hits, online porn webcam sex, sex-partner-wanted ads (in which he said he wanted "ANYONE FOR ANYTHING") with his ISPs, nickname, etc. all confirmed by the police forensics.
Law enforcement also found something about an e-site he was possibly connected to where men learn how to seduce women. It was called "The Secrets of Sexual Addiction." Yidwithlid had tried to mask his real name a couple times on these sites but he used his credit card. And many of these from years BEFORE he got in touch with me.
It was surreal. But I knew this person.... I thought! We'd had so many great chats about so many things, not just sex. I was NOTHING to him. NOTHING. I was a THING to be used and walked away from - just like the hookers!
This wasn't even about me & him and some cybersex chats . It was a much bigger and uglier problem and one I wasn't involved with. For me it was just chatting with him. I liked talking to him a lot more than the cybersex but it seemed he wouldn't talk to me without the latter. For Yidwithlid it was a full blown addiction. Yid with lid had reassured me many times it wasn't all about sex... but for him it was.
"Then I felt worse. The ONLY reason he'd gotten in touch with me was to TARGET & use me. I was a freebie for him, a guinea pig to try his 'make a woman sexually addicted to you' stuff on and nothing more.
That fact I'd had real feelings for him all those years - just helped along his toying with me.
The things I had done ... the abuse I took from my ex-husband because of HIM.... the abuse of my kids because of my sticking up for Yid with lid .... the times I tried to end it and then got reeled back in. All the times I begged him to take his wife & he to marriage counseling and to work on his marriage. I felt sick. I meant absolutely nothing to him - not even as a friend.
Why had he done this me? Why?
"The police had sent everything to Target #2 - but she was FURIOUS. She thanked me for "saving her" from him. She said it made that silly "apology" of his even more of a lie. Yidwithlid must have thought he still had his sex-hobby in his pocket as a back up once he'd dumped me.
"As long as he could shut up myself and Target #2 and tell his version to "protect his wife" - he was ok. The more the truth came out and he couldn't tell a selective story - the more irate he got. That "apology" was yet another smokescreen as was his smear campaign against me. (and a classic online predator move!)
"Additionally, Yid with lid had been telling me, Target #2 and my friend that his wife was "sexually disappointing." Well, of course she was next to a paid-sex-actress!!. His wife was a mother & was working a job too and this jerk was spending his evenings online with women or porn or both; and his lunch hours at the high-end whorehouse using women like meat. That's what he REALLY thought of women. Everything with me had been a sick set up! He ruined my relationship and plunged me into PTSD over a set up!
I decided to send him an email with everything on it. I wish I could have been a FLY ON HIS COMPUTER SCREEN when he opened that email!! I told him the police already had it. Then I cried, unplugged my computer and didn't stop crying or vomitting for days.
"Weeks later I got a distrubing letter from Yidwithlids county Police Department telling me to call them as I was needed for questioning.
"I called and a detective finally called me back. Seems Yidwithlid and his wife had taken out a cease & desist order on myself and Target #2 and supposedly I had violated it. I never never received any order and knew nothing about it so how could I have violated it?? (Police were unable to produce any PROOF OF SERVICE for such a cease & desist)
"Besides I had cut off all contact and Computer Crimes was getting a me temporary protective order on him.
Appeared that Yidwithlid had taken selective things into his police and told them I was not only lying and making things up but harassing and stalking Yidwithli. I was too sick to get out of bed 1/2 the time now from lack of sleep and trauma. How could I do that?
This detective must have been a friend of theirs because he was very nasty to me and kept mumbling. The detective wouldn't come to see me for questioning but wanted me to drive the full hour there - which was not possible, in part due to my disability and how sick this had made me. I found out later everything I sent them somehow "got lost." Now I think this friend of he & his wife harassed me "as a favor" to them.
Detective D'Axxx was shocked to learn I was disabled. I could only imagine how Yidwithlid had described me. He called my doctor and she confirmed I'd been very sick, in the hospital and I was too crippled to be driving to Yidwithlids home in the middle of the night; as he alleged I was doing! The Detective must have gotten quite a shock. (seems Yid and his wife convinced the Detective Target #1 was just a jealous obsessed woman - when she was ANYTHING BUT!)
I got in touch with the Sargeant in charge and sent him everything: Yidwithlid's hooker reviews, Yidwithlid's threat and the names of the NYPD detectives I had talked to. Target #2 called the Sargent too and told him it was her.
I had been too sick and in and out of hospital. I didn't want to go back. This traumatized me all over again.
A verified copy of the cover letter sent to the Det. (D'A(deleted)) along with all findings and data from the Computer Crimes detectives - Sent by Target #1 to stop the harassment & cyberstalking of her:
May 29, 2004
Detective D’AXXX
County of XXX Police Department
XXX Precinct
Crime Section
XXXX Avenue
XXXXX, XX
RE: Complaint # 04-261540
I am in receipt of the form letter regarding the above referenced file. I called your office on Friday, May 28, 2004 and left a message for you. The officer I spoke with informed me that there is a letter from an attorney’s office telling me to stop contacting Mr. & Mrs. Yidwithlid.
I never received any such letter and as a former paralegal, find it odd any attorney would actually send one without a proof-of-service. Nor have I contacted either party for over 2 months. I would like to see proof-of-service.
The last time I verbally spoke to Mr. Yidwithlid was on March 17, 2004 when called me after I had learned that he, my dear friend of many years, had engaged in immoral and predatory behavior as well as abusing my good nature and causing considerable psychological harm to my family. Yes, I was very very wrong in participating but I did not return his sick behavior towards me in kind. I told him any information that was found about his activities would be passed along to his wife, which is what I did. I also urged him to get psychiatric help.
On Friday, March 19, 2004 Mr. Yidwithlid instant messaged me on MSN with the attached unedited threat. I panicked about his frame of mind and threats and on Saturday, March 20, 2004 I visited Detective XX at the XXX 11Xth Precinct to try to get a TRO. Mr. Yidwithlid was placed onto their database. (the attachments will give you a time frame and more information)
Sunday, March 21, 2004 Mr. Yidwithlid sent an email attempting to apologize for his behavior, both to Target #2and myself. He unfortunately misspelled my name in a rude manner (i.e. XXXX instead of XXX), which triggered me even more. That week I was diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and have been to a doctor and hospitals (name of hospitals) a number of times for chest pain, insomnia, tremors, bloody vomit, loss of appetite, esophagel burning and dehydration.
I am taking sedatives as needed under doctors orders to deal with what I have been told is PTSD & emotional rape by Mr. Yidwithlid so there is no way I could drive to talk to you. I am simply not well enough. I have also been seeing a psychologist regularly since this information came to light in mid-March.
It so happened that the XX State Attorney General’s office is doing a sweep of brothels in Manhattan that advertise online. Mr. Yidwithlid regularly visited two of them as you can see in these hard copies of his "reviews" from TheEroticReview.com and UtopiaGuide.com.
XXXX Computer Crimes has told me that even if he tries to remove this evidence and cover up or deny it ever existed, that, should it come to court, the cache files from these sites would have his ISP and source codes and the website could be asked for his credit card information.
The two brothels, XXX’s and XXXXX’s, could be questioned also as part of this ongoing investigation by the XXX Department of Investigation.
Three of these hooker-review posts were made BEFORE Mr. Yidwithlid looked me up online at Classmates.com, one was just one month after! And this is the tip of the iceberg.
(We had a link to these posts on utopiaguide.com but NYPD finally confirmed for us recently that they were removed by activity positively identified as coming from gridney/ YidwithLid's IP - Fighter)
I understand Target #2 has sent you a copy of a video that Mr. Yidwithlid emailed her a couple months ago. Target #2 did not ASK for this video and it upset her greatly. While there is no face in the video, it was probably made in an area of the Yidwithlid home. A copy of it has been sent to the XXX and the FBI. I am also enclosing a copy of one of the suggestive emails Mr. Yidwithlid sent me last year. I have since blocked all his email from reaching me, closed down most of my email accounts, dismantled online chats and had myself removed from any online school reunion sites (which is where Mr. Yidwithlid initially found me in April 2002). However he does know my address and phone numbers and seems to stop at nothing, including using legal and law enforcement resources (and his wife’s trust) to manipulate a cover-up of his actions.
As someone on permanent disability and the primary caretaker for two children, this man’s remorseless actions are very threatening to me. (and this predator didn't end there!! Click Here for what he did as recently as 2008)
As far as contacting Target #2 – a review of Mr. Yidwithlid's cell phone records (a cell phone paid for by his employer apparently) would show numerous calls placed to her by Mr. Yidwithlid between January and March, 2004. He should be asked for that number. Target #2 would be more than happy to speak with you.
I do not appreciate this malicious retaliation, frivolous legal action and an obvious attempt to “turn the tables” and portray me as a “woman scorned” on Mr. Yidwithlid's part. This new development has harmed my physical health and I have been diagnosed with a PTSD, yet again.
If this is passed on to them or their attorney I only hope that Mr. Yidwithlid gets help for this possibly mentally ill behavior and his wife gets all the legal and emotional support she needs to deal with the actions of this man. As well as passing on to his wife that I am deeply, deeply sorry.
I hope this information completes your file. Please contact XXX at the numbers provided for any further information as I have turned everything over to them weeks ago.
Target #1
_____________________________________________
Detective XXX
XXX Computer Crimes
(see attached copy of letter)
XXX-610-XXXX
Detective XXX
11Xth Precinct, XXX
XXX-205-XXXX
XXXX, XX State Attorney General’s Office
Who referred the brothel information to:
Detective XXX, XX Computer Crimes
(investigating the brothels for XX State Attorney General)
XX-610-XXXX
XXX Department of Investigation
(investigating the brothels and online review sites where Mr. Yidwithlid was posting)
XXX-825-XXXX
May 29, 2004
Target #1: I did openly admit my guilt and stupidity. For the sake of my family and Yidwithlids I got past my embarrassment and made sure I had hard evidence to back up what I was saying. It was the only way that everyone finally left me alone. I'd already cut off contact. I guess Yidwithlid had forgotten a few important details! (this is also a classic -- the SMEAR CAMPAIGN abusers run when they are caught and/ or held accountable. This smearing is a predictable as the sunrise. As with Hicks, Dorsky, Beckstead, Thomas, Jacoby... 'its the Target's fault, the predators are innocent victims, they 'did nothing wrong', 'its all a lie' or 'here's MY true version of the story' (selective truth of course)....
)
"I have NEVER done online dating and NEVER hung out in chat rooms or social networking --ever.
Yid with lid was probably the only person from my life who could have gotten me to do what he did. He played on my long-standing fondness for him and worked me into an addicted mess and I was too weak to stop myself. And I am sure his ego would have loved hearing that.
"I wasn't online looking for love, sex or anything. And I let my loneliness & vulnerability get the better of me. It was a long time before I went back online at all. A VERY long time. (It wasn't YOUR FAULT - he used seductive NLP & mind control on you!)
"I prayed I was just overly sensitive because of my years of being abused by a narcissistic parent, friends and subsequently almost every man I'd gotten involved with. Even now I find it difficult to fathom how you can give so much of yourself to a person, bare your soul and have them so totally wipe it all away as if it never happened with no remorse and go on their merry way leaving a path of destruction behind them. Realizing someone you have known for so long, spent so much time talking with, did it ALL just to USE you is horrifying. The grief is no ordinary grief. I still have love in my heart for him, that will never stop. The police and the D.A.'s office called a few times after for verification of information. I just added I wanted Yidwithlid to get help and his kids not be traumatized because of him.
I felt dirty and I apologized over & over to anyone that I'd hurt during this. I was wrong, I have never denied that. After distancing himself from me forever, I hear he now tells stories, all of which are factually twisted with the spin and leaving out certain facts to make HIM look the victim. It's nothing less than soul murder."
Narcissists almost make a career out of being victims. Ask any narcissist to tell you his story and you are bound to hear about the evil ex-wife, the ungrateful children, the idiotic and exploitative bosses, the crooked partner and every person who has been out to get them throughout their lives - which just about includes everyone they have ever encountered. Get involved with them and you will be the next addition to the list.
They go to great lengths to understand the human species and win favour with the bulk of it, so they actually know about things like love and caring and kindness. They simply have no clue what it means, which doesn't really matter anyway. All that counts to them is the results they can get if they know how to effectively use these things.
They know that, "I love you" turns on your wishful thinking, forgiving nature or your guilt and gets them back in the door. The know that "I'm sorry" gets them forgiven and gives them license to do it all again. They know that "I'll change" buys them time to work on you some more. They know that their numerous excuses take the focus off them and get them off the hook.
When we simply accept these things and even protect abusers from the consequences of their actions, we are not only giving them permission to continue, but to escalate to even greater levels of abusive power and control.
If an abuser is going to change, it will be because he is forced to. For as long as he can keep getting away with his behaviours and keep you coming back for more, there will be no incentive to change.
For as long as he can make you feel sorry for him, he has you where he wants you.
http://www.cosmicwalk.co.za/games-victims.html
I've been told he tells people I am physically stalking him; which is physically impossible for me to do. I still reel from it all.... the big malicious horrible lie. From someone I knew! Why? Why?"
Acquaintance rape is using physical force, emotional bargaining, blackmail or mind games to force sexual intercourse, fondling, kissing, holding ... any sexual contact forced on you by a stranger or someone you know.
INTERNET ESCORT'S HANDBOOK
yidwithlid
Monday, June 25, 2007
GRIDNEY/ YidwithLid's 'Apology' & More Painful Sex, Lies & Cyberpathy
SCROLL DOWN 1/2WAY IN THIS POST FOR GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID'S EMAIL APOLOGY TO:
1. a woman he'd never met in person but was calling 3-4 times a day telling her he LOVED her and,
2. a woman he'd known over 25 years who he was using as a online sex object (she had no idea) and whose family & life he destroyed.
Talk about playing people like objects! (do you think he was sincere?...)
More from our phone and email interviews with Yidwithlid/ GRIDNEY's targets. Well worth reading. Is this how you felt too with your cyberpath, readers? (our comments in DARK BLUE/ original interviews in Fall 2004):
Target #1 -
I was horrified, sick and feeling very used and stupid. That feeling I had in the pit of my stomach all along had been right and I ignored it. Like the patsy I was trained to be by an abusive parent, I just ignored my own feelings. Yidwithlid had lied to me from day one. Someone he knew. Everything was a big fat lie. Even the "friendship." The horrible abuse I had been taking from my ex-husband because of yidwithlid now made me feel very pathetic.
I told Target #2 to go be with him because I truly wanted him to be happy. In my trauma and blind thinking all I could still think was to make him happy.
Obviously, what was going to make him happy wasn't ever me. I wasn't even real to him. No wonder he avoided seeing me for 2 years. I was an online fantasy - and he'd even lost that just a few months in when my ex-husband tried to confront him. I was, actually, nothing. Not even a real person.
I also felt truly HORRIBLE that I introduced Target #2 to Yidwithlid. She was pretty nasty to me about it because she was angry for a while after for introducing her to him and telling her what a great guy he was. I deserved it for being such an idiot.
gridney / Yidwithlid told her he "loved" her - and never ever said that to me in all the years he knew me. Even as just a friend. In fact, on a 3 way call - I heard him vehemently say to Target #2 that he "never loved [me] never!" I was throwing up again as soon as I got off the phone. I couldn't stop.
Don't get me wrong - I know this sounds bizarre but I was not jealous. Not even a little bit. Jealous or "scorned woman" wasn't even close. I self-abused because he was just confirming for me what years of abuse had 'taught' me - I was garbage. It was beyond plain -- I didn't need a house to fall on me. I was nothing but a toy, something to fulfill his addiction when he was unemployed or bored. He didn't want me to be real. He didn't want to know me, be seen with me and he never had ANY intention of introducing me to his family - even BEFORE the cybersex began. He was laughing at me the entire time. I was a joke. A pathetic, convenient joke.
Prior to yidwithlid re-entering my life I had been through more than a lot of people my age. I was worn down and vulnerable. And now I was in hell because of him and my letting those old feelings surface. I felt pathetic. I couldn't figure out what I had done to make him treat me like that, not even being my friend! He knew exactly what he was doing and his ego must have been enormous knowing how he'd duped me. I wanted to cry or scream but when I opened my mouth - I could only vomit.
When I did finally pick up one of his calls, I spoke like it was one long primal-scream and I tried to maintain some control. Yidwithlid tried to get me to 'wait a month to tell' his wife....I had Fed Ex'd everything to her the day before. (good! - gridney/ Yidwithlid would have been spinning and smearing you to his wife & friends, and probably did anyway!)
She needed to know what he was doing, finally. It was the only way I could see that he'd get the help he needed and his wife could finally help him. She was his wife - and what I did to her was wrong. I knew she'd hate me and he'd make sure to paint a bad picture of me.
Yidwithlid tried to tell me that - "you know I have feelings for you." It would have been kinder if Yidwithlid had stabbed me or just called me an "ugly fat old pig." I wonder what those feelings are.... disgust, amusement, annoyance... I still have no idea. He only said that to try to buy my silence with more lies and guilt.
He left a message on my phone saying he wanted to see me & talk to me and that I "meant too much to him." I still wish he'd meant it.
I was vomiting a lot. I had to go somewhere one evening about 4 days after it all, and I ended up having to pull off an expressway to vomit and then I felt very faint. I went to an E.R. that night and was released. I went back to the hospital a number of times in the 2 week after and by late March (2004) when the police were involved, I pulled the plug on my computer.
Target #2 was calling me. She was out for blood. I understood her rage. I did tell her that going to meet and have sex with a guy she'd never met and only knew online for 5 weeks was very risky. I stopped taking her calls for a while and the answering machine messages went on & on & on. She was very triggered, seems Yidwithlid had disconnected his cell phone and I was too sick to help anyone or even get out of bed.
My doctor sent me to a trauma counselor a number of times during the first few weeks after for thoughts of suicide. I was sedated and just walking around zoned out. Target #2 called me a lot after that. She still loved him and kept trying to get him to talk to her and explain. I told her he MUST love her and maybe she should just wait it out and he'd call her. Yidwithlid just dropped off the radar. No closure - like we didn't exist.
~~~~~~~~~
Target #2:
I kept calling Yidwithlid's cell phone for verification of what had happened. I asked him about something. Yidwithlid then told me, when I confronted him about something I KNEW had happened: "Never happened."
I was angry beyond belief. Yidwithlid told me "if you love me you will leave me alone and let me start a new life." What about me? He'd promised me trips and said "our love would go on forever." He swore he didn't love his wife at all. He'd even sent me photos of himself with his kids cropped out! Leave him alone? (If he really did care about Target #2 at all he would never have said that or done what he did) He even had the temerity to say he'd told his rabbi he'd "fallen in love" with me. My money says he told his rabbi I was some obsessed stalker!
I got online and dug up everything I could on him - I was going to make sure his boss, his family and everyone he cared about knew what an animal he was! This man's religious and caring nature was nothing but a pose! His job, his publishers were going to know.
I was sexually abused as a child and wanted his poor kids away from him too! I called a P.I. friend in LA to help me. I was not going quietly. (Readers: we do NOT recommend this sort of over the top revenge! - Fighter)
~~~~~~~~~~~
Target #1:
About 10 days after all this Yidwithlid emailed what he thought passed for an apology to myself and Target #2. I couldn't believe he was being that impersonal. Of course this just triggered my trauma worse. He misspelled my last name in a suggestive manner. I freaked out.
I meant nothing to him. Nothing. I wasn't even a person. Bad enough I was being abused in my own home, my kids were subjected to seeing it - because of my relationship with Yidwithlid!
Bad enough I was disabled and could barely leave my house some days. Here it was - the proof that I really was nothing. I made a stupid decision based on lies and my fears were confirmed.
I was a just "thing" to be clicked off with computer mouse.
GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID certainly had NO PROBLEM pushing his family aside for his online sexual gratifications by emotionally brainwashing 2 vulnerable Targets! Now its their fault his family is hurt?
Also notice how GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID implies that he has to 'be strong' online and around them, AGAIN making the Targets responsible for the fact that he's a Sex Addict on top of being a predator.
Did we count 24 "I"s and 8 "me/my"s? In a short missive - GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid references HIMSELF and his 'possessions' 32 times.
What he did to the Targets only twice? .... does this remind you of our First Predator of the Month, Ed Hicks? or Doug Beckstead? constant references to HIMSELF?
Here's what TV Counselor Dr. Phil has to say about APOLOGIES (GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid's 'apology' doesn't even come close!):
GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID sent it to BOTH Targets? One he'd been telling he LOVED and the other he knew for over 25 years? ...We won't use the word that comes to mind here, readers! COWARD is the term for this that's at least printable. He could have at LEAST seen Target #1 in person a couple times to talk to her FACE TO FACE about this! He owed her that much. But no......
(We are also reminded of Brad Dorsky's accusation that his Target was playing around online also - which she wasn't.)
As a typical Predator - GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID only saw the pain he caused in his own home. He doesn't even acknowledge the pain he caused Target #1 for 2 years and the abuse her ex-husband was heaping on her because of him. Typical predator - he has ZERO responsibility in his mind to her - he caused her to be abused and made her so sick she had to go to the hospital a few times. Does he care? We think not.
In their minds, predators feel their victims have no right to be angry with them - no matter how badly they were used.
GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID didn't even apologize in 2003 when Target #1's estranged husband found out by hacking the computer. In fact GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid's only comment was "I feel responsible" (he was responsible!), remember readers? And yet he did NOTHING to help her - not even emotional support! Not even a cup of coffee and a hug!
And then STILL he went on using Target #1 and twisting her mind & emotions KNOWING she was vulnerable!
Yidwithlid did NOTHING to support Target #1, who was in his 'thrall.' He just left her hanging, dealing with abuse, on her own for weeks. How dare her husband find out and interrupt HIS GOOD TIME! GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID seems ticked that his latest **** buddy was gone.
How much you want to bet he told people Target #1 was "just jealous"? LOL Typical Cyberpath excuse: 'scorned woman'!
And how much you want to bet, readers - GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID never really 'discussed it all' with his wife like he says? That those discussions were more of his spin and lies? And selective information?
Wouldn't you love to know what these Cyberpaths REALLY tell their spouses and friends? Trust us - its minimized, watered down and half-baked. They paint their Targets as the bad ones and justify doing it because they need to "protect their families/spouses from being harmed." Continuing to lie hurts them worse, doesn't it? But it gives the Cyberpath another way to garner sympathy for his/ her horrible problems.
Additionally, GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID talks about the 12-Step process of recovery 'taking time' and being a 'long, drawn out process.' Anyone who knows about 12-step programs knows they have one big principle: KISS = Keep It Simple, Stupid. These Targets, like many of you, were in a lot of psychic pain.
GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID completely missed the Step [and continues to purposely miss it even years later we learned] of making amends and telling the whole unvarnished truth to those he'd harmed. Now he is angry at the targets and using his anger to say they don't deserve amends for what THEY did.
And why should he make amends after he painted HIMSELF as the victim here? The only thing it appears Yidwithlid was sorry about was getting caught!
Of course he portrayed his Targets as "too much of a temptation" (making THEM responsible for his out of control behavior) and that he was 'counseled' not to 'put himself in situations where [he] had to be strong' according to more of the chats we read... [some of which we can not publish here at the request of law enforcement].
Readers, this in an IMPORTANT expose and one you should read over & over again. It's so textbook and encompasses the narcissism & addictive nature of Cyberpaths and how it infects the victims are shown here better than any book or article could explain.
Like all cyberpaths, GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID is a coward and just ran away. No closure, no explanation, nothing!
His male buddies are probably high-fiving him.
GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid even says as much was he says in the 'apology' that he is 'trying to make that person go away.' He probably had every intention of starting up the same thing with someone else, if he hadn't already...... and getting these women who now knew the truth as far away as possible so he could smear them, make himself the victim and move forward (more on that later) .
I wrote Yidwithlid back after the apology and I was screaming inside. Everything in my head was a scream. I wrote the word "RAPE" to him in my response but I don't remember anything else I said. That's how I felt. How I still feel. "Raped" Now that I've been counseled about Emotional Rape I understand why I felt that way.
I had already gone to the police after Yidwithlid had threatened my kids. Yidwithlid was in their database and they were going to keep it confidential ...and I couldn't believe this was happening. I never get into trouble. My father was in law enforcement. This was all so out of character for me. I was a boring, straight arrow... and this? Who was I that I got involved with Yidwithlid! I didn't know. I was mortified.
This apology upset me so much. I was so numb and sedated I didn't even feel it until days later. (PTSD - emotional numbing) I went to my doctor at my therapist's suggestion a couple days later and was admitted to the hospital for the damage the non-stop vomiting had done to my esophagus. As a disabled person and a single mom, I really didn't need more injury. I had my children to think about. I told the doctors everything and its in their files. His name, the relationship, the police contacts, everything.
Yidwithlid never contacted me again. Why would he? He never wanted to even know me, except as a sex toy, in the first place. He hated me the whole time. He just wants me dead, probably. (He created a new nickname & identity and got back online pretty quickly after he felt things calmed down... probably doing it again... online porn and all)
I was told I was in the throes of a full blown Post Traumatic Stress attack. Target #2 was still trying to pull it all together and couldn't figure out if I was jealous & lying, which Yidwithlid had implied to her - or I was telling the truth. Yidwithlid had done a really good job of twisting her mind too.
But something more felt wrong. Very wrong. And I couldn't get it out of my head.... the little voice that said "there's more... more going on here." I just couldn't stop thinking it. Flashbacks were waking me up at night and I was feeling something strongly in my gut.
(MORE TO COME ON TARGET #1s 'FEELING' - we aren't quite done with GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID yet!! Wait until you see what law enforcement found.
And, we will post our edits of excerpts from Target #1 and #2s thoughts to tell the rest - Fighter)
Don't forget to take a look at what was found by law enforcement in GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID's internet cache. - CLICK HERE...
yidwithlid
1. a woman he'd never met in person but was calling 3-4 times a day telling her he LOVED her and,
2. a woman he'd known over 25 years who he was using as a online sex object (she had no idea) and whose family & life he destroyed.
Talk about playing people like objects! (do you think he was sincere?...)
More from our phone and email interviews with Yidwithlid/ GRIDNEY's targets. Well worth reading. Is this how you felt too with your cyberpath, readers? (our comments in DARK BLUE/ original interviews in Fall 2004):
Target #1 -
I was horrified, sick and feeling very used and stupid. That feeling I had in the pit of my stomach all along had been right and I ignored it. Like the patsy I was trained to be by an abusive parent, I just ignored my own feelings. Yidwithlid had lied to me from day one. Someone he knew. Everything was a big fat lie. Even the "friendship." The horrible abuse I had been taking from my ex-husband because of yidwithlid now made me feel very pathetic.
I told Target #2 to go be with him because I truly wanted him to be happy. In my trauma and blind thinking all I could still think was to make him happy.
Obviously, what was going to make him happy wasn't ever me. I wasn't even real to him. No wonder he avoided seeing me for 2 years. I was an online fantasy - and he'd even lost that just a few months in when my ex-husband tried to confront him. I was, actually, nothing. Not even a real person.
I also felt truly HORRIBLE that I introduced Target #2 to Yidwithlid. She was pretty nasty to me about it because she was angry for a while after for introducing her to him and telling her what a great guy he was. I deserved it for being such an idiot.
- When I saw that he answered MY friend (FoT1) that he 'hadn't talked about Target #2' to me; yet he had gone and smeared ME to Target #2....
- That he was making plans to go be with her, when he couldn't make time but once in 2 years to see me for a hello. And even then he seemed annoyed. I was never a real person to him and when I did assert myself he'd trained me to back down because he'd stop speaking to me for a while to 'punish' me...
- Couldn't remember my phone number in 2 years when he was calling her 2-4 times a day...
- Calling Target #2 'my sweetie' and 'babe' when he told me he HATED pet names... (remember that one readers?)
gridney / Yidwithlid told her he "loved" her - and never ever said that to me in all the years he knew me. Even as just a friend. In fact, on a 3 way call - I heard him vehemently say to Target #2 that he "never loved [me] never!" I was throwing up again as soon as I got off the phone. I couldn't stop.
Don't get me wrong - I know this sounds bizarre but I was not jealous. Not even a little bit. Jealous or "scorned woman" wasn't even close. I self-abused because he was just confirming for me what years of abuse had 'taught' me - I was garbage. It was beyond plain -- I didn't need a house to fall on me. I was nothing but a toy, something to fulfill his addiction when he was unemployed or bored. He didn't want me to be real. He didn't want to know me, be seen with me and he never had ANY intention of introducing me to his family - even BEFORE the cybersex began. He was laughing at me the entire time. I was a joke. A pathetic, convenient joke.
Prior to yidwithlid re-entering my life I had been through more than a lot of people my age. I was worn down and vulnerable. And now I was in hell because of him and my letting those old feelings surface. I felt pathetic. I couldn't figure out what I had done to make him treat me like that, not even being my friend! He knew exactly what he was doing and his ego must have been enormous knowing how he'd duped me. I wanted to cry or scream but when I opened my mouth - I could only vomit.
When I did finally pick up one of his calls, I spoke like it was one long primal-scream and I tried to maintain some control. Yidwithlid tried to get me to 'wait a month to tell' his wife....I had Fed Ex'd everything to her the day before. (good! - gridney/ Yidwithlid would have been spinning and smearing you to his wife & friends, and probably did anyway!)
She needed to know what he was doing, finally. It was the only way I could see that he'd get the help he needed and his wife could finally help him. She was his wife - and what I did to her was wrong. I knew she'd hate me and he'd make sure to paint a bad picture of me.
Yidwithlid tried to tell me that - "you know I have feelings for you." It would have been kinder if Yidwithlid had stabbed me or just called me an "ugly fat old pig." I wonder what those feelings are.... disgust, amusement, annoyance... I still have no idea. He only said that to try to buy my silence with more lies and guilt.
He left a message on my phone saying he wanted to see me & talk to me and that I "meant too much to him." I still wish he'd meant it.
I was vomiting a lot. I had to go somewhere one evening about 4 days after it all, and I ended up having to pull off an expressway to vomit and then I felt very faint. I went to an E.R. that night and was released. I went back to the hospital a number of times in the 2 week after and by late March (2004) when the police were involved, I pulled the plug on my computer.
Target #2 was calling me. She was out for blood. I understood her rage. I did tell her that going to meet and have sex with a guy she'd never met and only knew online for 5 weeks was very risky. I stopped taking her calls for a while and the answering machine messages went on & on & on. She was very triggered, seems Yidwithlid had disconnected his cell phone and I was too sick to help anyone or even get out of bed.
My doctor sent me to a trauma counselor a number of times during the first few weeks after for thoughts of suicide. I was sedated and just walking around zoned out. Target #2 called me a lot after that. She still loved him and kept trying to get him to talk to her and explain. I told her he MUST love her and maybe she should just wait it out and he'd call her. Yidwithlid just dropped off the radar. No closure - like we didn't exist.
~~~~~~~~~
Target #2:
I kept calling Yidwithlid's cell phone for verification of what had happened. I asked him about something. Yidwithlid then told me, when I confronted him about something I KNEW had happened: "Never happened."
I was angry beyond belief. Yidwithlid told me "if you love me you will leave me alone and let me start a new life." What about me? He'd promised me trips and said "our love would go on forever." He swore he didn't love his wife at all. He'd even sent me photos of himself with his kids cropped out! Leave him alone? (If he really did care about Target #2 at all he would never have said that or done what he did) He even had the temerity to say he'd told his rabbi he'd "fallen in love" with me. My money says he told his rabbi I was some obsessed stalker!
I got online and dug up everything I could on him - I was going to make sure his boss, his family and everyone he cared about knew what an animal he was! This man's religious and caring nature was nothing but a pose! His job, his publishers were going to know.
I was sexually abused as a child and wanted his poor kids away from him too! I called a P.I. friend in LA to help me. I was not going quietly. (Readers: we do NOT recommend this sort of over the top revenge! - Fighter)
~~~~~~~~~~~
Target #1:
About 10 days after all this Yidwithlid emailed what he thought passed for an apology to myself and Target #2. I couldn't believe he was being that impersonal. Of course this just triggered my trauma worse. He misspelled my last name in a suggestive manner. I freaked out.
I meant nothing to him. Nothing. I wasn't even a person. Bad enough I was being abused in my own home, my kids were subjected to seeing it - because of my relationship with Yidwithlid!
Bad enough I was disabled and could barely leave my house some days. Here it was - the proof that I really was nothing. I made a stupid decision based on lies and my fears were confirmed.
I was a just "thing" to be clicked off with computer mouse.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
THE 'APOLOGY'
no editing to spelling or syntax has been done... only names and people left out. We also highlighted the number of times GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid said I, ME or MY to make a point that he really had no empathy for what he had done to any of his Targets.
Like most online predators - GRIDNEY / Yidwithlid was only concern for himself! (and of course HIS family - whom he LIED to about Target #1 and #2 and his preying on vulnerable women online.)
Has yours done this? (we are reminded of the letter Ed Hicks sent to Wife #6!)
NOTICE how Yidwithlid puts Target #2 FIRST on his email list. Must have made Target #1 feel really good... like a bad chain letter. He could have a least sent 2 emails!
**************************
TO: Target # 2@###.com, Target #1@###.net
FROM: Yidwithlid
DATE: 3/26/2004
I am writing down every day. I see the pain I cased every second of very day. my wife crying (sometimes she throws up) every day and ail cause of me. My kids having no interpersonal relationships because I have been selfish ant too lazy to give them the attention thy deserve. I have a friend my [clergyman] who I made feel so uncomfortable by mixing him up in all this Even quitting the #### was selfish. . And I am also profoundly sorry for the pain that I have cased to you both. Every Day I pray to God to relive your pain and that of my family. and then I pray that he bring me closer to [Him] in mind and spirit. so I can change the kind of horrible person I have been.
Target #1 you are right about those 12 steps but they take time...the first one was discussing it all and that goes way beyond my time on line it goes to the way I relate to my family help my kids,. My [clergyman] says to do true teshuva, I have to change, and I am working on int,,,it is a lng drawn out process.,.
I got rid of aol adn yahoo and only have the original MSN I dont go ton here, I was advised to no longer put my self in oppottunities where I have to be strong at least untill I have shanged form the creep I was, .Someday with God’s help I may be a decent human being again.. Am truely sorry for the pain I caused and all I can say is that ai sm trying to make that person go away
Ihis is from the heart, wheater u believe or not.
************************************
GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID certainly had NO PROBLEM pushing his family aside for his online sexual gratifications by emotionally brainwashing 2 vulnerable Targets! Now its their fault his family is hurt?
Also notice how GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID implies that he has to 'be strong' online and around them, AGAIN making the Targets responsible for the fact that he's a Sex Addict on top of being a predator.
Did we count 24 "I"s and 8 "me/my"s? In a short missive - GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid references HIMSELF and his 'possessions' 32 times.
What he did to the Targets only twice? .... does this remind you of our First Predator of the Month, Ed Hicks? or Doug Beckstead? constant references to HIMSELF?
Here's what TV Counselor Dr. Phil has to say about APOLOGIES (GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid's 'apology' doesn't even come close!):
"[APOLOGIES] are not some pious, phoney-baloney, half-hearted rendition of what you think they want to hear. Nor is it a watered-down, politically correct 'confession' that you think will buy you closure at the expense of truth... [admit] what you are doing to screw up your [and other people's] life.
This also means admitting that you are getting payoffs for what you're doing, however sick or subtle those payoffs are. - Dr. Phil McGraw"
GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID sent it to BOTH Targets? One he'd been telling he LOVED and the other he knew for over 25 years? ...We won't use the word that comes to mind here, readers! COWARD is the term for this that's at least printable. He could have at LEAST seen Target #1 in person a couple times to talk to her FACE TO FACE about this! He owed her that much. But no......
(We are also reminded of Brad Dorsky's accusation that his Target was playing around online also - which she wasn't.)
As a typical Predator - GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID only saw the pain he caused in his own home. He doesn't even acknowledge the pain he caused Target #1 for 2 years and the abuse her ex-husband was heaping on her because of him. Typical predator - he has ZERO responsibility in his mind to her - he caused her to be abused and made her so sick she had to go to the hospital a few times. Does he care? We think not.
In their minds, predators feel their victims have no right to be angry with them - no matter how badly they were used.
GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID didn't even apologize in 2003 when Target #1's estranged husband found out by hacking the computer. In fact GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid's only comment was "I feel responsible" (he was responsible!), remember readers? And yet he did NOTHING to help her - not even emotional support! Not even a cup of coffee and a hug!
And then STILL he went on using Target #1 and twisting her mind & emotions KNOWING she was vulnerable!
Yidwithlid did NOTHING to support Target #1, who was in his 'thrall.' He just left her hanging, dealing with abuse, on her own for weeks. How dare her husband find out and interrupt HIS GOOD TIME! GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID seems ticked that his latest **** buddy was gone.
How much you want to bet he told people Target #1 was "just jealous"? LOL Typical Cyberpath excuse: 'scorned woman'!
And how much you want to bet, readers - GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID never really 'discussed it all' with his wife like he says? That those discussions were more of his spin and lies? And selective information?
Wouldn't you love to know what these Cyberpaths REALLY tell their spouses and friends? Trust us - its minimized, watered down and half-baked. They paint their Targets as the bad ones and justify doing it because they need to "protect their families/spouses from being harmed." Continuing to lie hurts them worse, doesn't it? But it gives the Cyberpath another way to garner sympathy for his/ her horrible problems.
Additionally, GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID talks about the 12-Step process of recovery 'taking time' and being a 'long, drawn out process.' Anyone who knows about 12-step programs knows they have one big principle: KISS = Keep It Simple, Stupid. These Targets, like many of you, were in a lot of psychic pain.
GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID completely missed the Step [and continues to purposely miss it even years later we learned] of making amends and telling the whole unvarnished truth to those he'd harmed. Now he is angry at the targets and using his anger to say they don't deserve amends for what THEY did.
And why should he make amends after he painted HIMSELF as the victim here? The only thing it appears Yidwithlid was sorry about was getting caught!
Of course he portrayed his Targets as "too much of a temptation" (making THEM responsible for his out of control behavior) and that he was 'counseled' not to 'put himself in situations where [he] had to be strong' according to more of the chats we read... [some of which we can not publish here at the request of law enforcement].
Readers, this in an IMPORTANT expose and one you should read over & over again. It's so textbook and encompasses the narcissism & addictive nature of Cyberpaths and how it infects the victims are shown here better than any book or article could explain.
Like all cyberpaths, GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID is a coward and just ran away. No closure, no explanation, nothing!
His male buddies are probably high-fiving him.
GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid even says as much was he says in the 'apology' that he is 'trying to make that person go away.' He probably had every intention of starting up the same thing with someone else, if he hadn't already...... and getting these women who now knew the truth as far away as possible so he could smear them, make himself the victim and move forward (more on that later) .
I wrote Yidwithlid back after the apology and I was screaming inside. Everything in my head was a scream. I wrote the word "RAPE" to him in my response but I don't remember anything else I said. That's how I felt. How I still feel. "Raped" Now that I've been counseled about Emotional Rape I understand why I felt that way.
I had already gone to the police after Yidwithlid had threatened my kids. Yidwithlid was in their database and they were going to keep it confidential ...and I couldn't believe this was happening. I never get into trouble. My father was in law enforcement. This was all so out of character for me. I was a boring, straight arrow... and this? Who was I that I got involved with Yidwithlid! I didn't know. I was mortified.
This apology upset me so much. I was so numb and sedated I didn't even feel it until days later. (PTSD - emotional numbing) I went to my doctor at my therapist's suggestion a couple days later and was admitted to the hospital for the damage the non-stop vomiting had done to my esophagus. As a disabled person and a single mom, I really didn't need more injury. I had my children to think about. I told the doctors everything and its in their files. His name, the relationship, the police contacts, everything.
Yidwithlid never contacted me again. Why would he? He never wanted to even know me, except as a sex toy, in the first place. He hated me the whole time. He just wants me dead, probably. (He created a new nickname & identity and got back online pretty quickly after he felt things calmed down... probably doing it again... online porn and all)
I was told I was in the throes of a full blown Post Traumatic Stress attack. Target #2 was still trying to pull it all together and couldn't figure out if I was jealous & lying, which Yidwithlid had implied to her - or I was telling the truth. Yidwithlid had done a really good job of twisting her mind too.
But something more felt wrong. Very wrong. And I couldn't get it out of my head.... the little voice that said "there's more... more going on here." I just couldn't stop thinking it. Flashbacks were waking me up at night and I was feeling something strongly in my gut.
(MORE TO COME ON TARGET #1s 'FEELING' - we aren't quite done with GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID yet!! Wait until you see what law enforcement found.
And, we will post our edits of excerpts from Target #1 and #2s thoughts to tell the rest - Fighter)
Don't forget to take a look at what was found by law enforcement in GRIDNEY/ YIDWITHLID's internet cache. - CLICK HERE...
yidwithlid
Wednesday, June 20, 2007
GRIDNEY/ YidwithLid's TANGLED (spun!) TIMELINE
Let's review the timeline here - because GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid (like many Cyberpaths, he changes his nicknames when he needs to 'hide'!) really messed up big time with all his online playing and sexual predation.....
1. GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid gets in touch with Target #1 (Target #1 has been badly abused her whole life and is now disabled, trapped in a very abusive living situation and severely depressed which makes her a prime target)
GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid toys with her for 2 years telling her:
2. Target #1 is manipulated by GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid to take ALL responsibility for the online-affair so when her ex-husband found out - she took physical & verbal abuse for GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid while he ran away from her!! And Target #1 excused it when GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid came back (BTW, GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid was upset that she was legally divorcing because of this and kept pushing her to go back to her abusive ex-husband or find a new real-life boyfriend!)
3. A few times Target #1 has tried to end it with GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid but is hoovered back in, thinking somehow she can help GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid and of course, GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid encourages her to think this.
GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid alternates between degrading, criticizing Target #1 and causing her deep psychological pain & becoming trauma-bonded to him; to smothering her with affection and playing on her compassion. Despite the cache records showing Target #1 told him repeatedly her illnesses had caused her to gain weight and that she was no longer attractive, gridney/ Yidwithlid insisted he was "not interested in her looks or physical attributes" but in HER. (LOL! These Cyberpaths all say the same B.S. They are into objectification and NOTHING ELSE.)
All in all, Target #1 is riding the cyberpath rollercoaster like most victims - confused, muddled and not knowing which end is up. (F.O.G. = Fear, Obligation, Guilt)
4. Target #1 has been helping GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid by editing and cleaning up some of his articles. There is a very unclear relationship here. Friends? more than friend? boundary violations galore and mucho mindf*cking on the part of gridney/ YidwithLid - like most cyberpath seducers.
When Target #1 attempts boundaries or clarification, gridney/ YidwithLid punishes her by not speaking to her for a while. When Target #1 feels she needs some space because gridney/ Yidwithlid is pushing her away or being inappropriate - she blocks him - and he comes back and REELS HER BACK IN!
5. Target #1 introduces gridney/ YidwithLid to her friend FoT1. FoT1 is young and gridney/ YidwithLid tries to move in on her sexually too. FoT1 doesn't reveal this to Target #1 until later - because she wasn't sure if gridney/ YidwithLid was just kidding or not at the time.
Later we find - gridney/ YidwithLid is never kidding when it comes to a sexual target. And every women is a potential sexual target for him! Again, gridney/ YidwithLid violates ALL boundaries.
6. Twenty months into Target #1s 'psychological rollercoaster ride' with gridney/ YidwithLid - she introduces him to her new friend Target #2 and asks her to help with getting an article of gridney/ YidwithLid's placed.
gridney/ YidwithLid tells Target #2 he loves her and her only 3 weeks into it, makes plans to rendezvous with her on his employer's dime and that he no longer loves his wife and hasn't loved his wife in a long time. (remember he'd told Target #1 he was 'not demonstrative' and had a 'hard time expressing his feelings'? Seems gridney/ YidwithLid has no problems now! - LOL)
gridney/ YidwithLid also minimizes"Target #1" as just an 'old friend only' and portrays Target #1 as 'having a thing for', 'obsessed and fixated' on and 'pining away for' him (gridney/ YidwithLid) and has for years. (gridney/ Yidwithlid neglects to mention he looked up Target #1 - says it was the opposite -- AGAIN -- and that she's been obsessed with him for years. A complete lie) gridney/ YidwithLid says that he feels NOTHING for Target #1 and is only humoring her because he 'feels sorry' for Target #1.
gridney/ YidwithLid makes some very callous comments about Target #1 and basically makes sure that Target #1 and Target #2 DO NOT TALK TO EACH OTHER.
One of his 'reasons'? gridney/ Yidwithlid tells Target #2 that Target #1 will 'ruin their happiness' with her 'jealousy'. (LOL!! gridney/ YidwithLid really takes the cake for self-involved B.S. here)
7. Target #2 comes from a background of sexual, emotional & physical abuse (again, prime target - we bet most of gridney/ YidwithLid's girlfriends and past conquests as well as his wife, ALL come from abusive relationships, families - etc.
Cyberpaths LOVE to rush in and make themselves seem very galant with their Targets - when actually it is just a case of PREDATORS HUNT THE WOUNDED), as well as being a cover for their perversions.
8. gridney/ YidwithLid has been very cryptic all along. gridney/ YidwithLid habitually does things like:
10. Target #2 becomes suspicious and asks gridney/ YidwithLid if he's playing Target #1 and her! He vehemently denies it and continues to paint Target #1 as a pathetic loser (all the while STILL playing with Target #1s heart & mind)... and never gives Target #1 a hint he even KNOWS Target #2.
Target #2 finally gets fed up with the vague answers and cryptic comments she gets from gridney/ YidwithLid -- one of which is that Target #1 "doesn't want Target #2 and he to be friends." (Target #1 didn't even know they KNEW EACH OTHER!)
11. Target #2 finally contacts Target #1 - they spend over 36 hours either online or on the phone dissecting what is going on. For a few days, Target #2 doesn't know what to believe.
12. Target #1 can't bring herself to speak to gridney/ YidwithLid (who is calling and messaging her frantically to please speak with him - a switch from someone who left her dangling for days or weeks at a time).
Target #1 tells Target #2 to please go be with gridney/ YidwithLid - since she now has confirmation finally that he isn't into her. Target #1 was so brainwashed she simply "wants gridney/ Yidwithlid to be happy."
By now, Target #1 is either too faint, vomiting or attempting to hold it together for her children - she can barely talk on the phone let alone stand up - and she also told us she didn't sleep for days.
13. Target #2, Target #1 and FOT1 all start sharing communications they are getting from or got from gridney/ YidwithLid. Target #1 also is reminded gridney/ Yidwithlid tried to come on to her friend Kristen online early in their relationship. Kristen confirms he did this and she blocked him!
gridney/ YidwithLid is frantically adjusting his lies as he goes along, twisting, spinning, minimizing and bending time -- searching for a "story" that will work!
gridney/ YidwithLid, in one chat we received, told Target #2 he 'fell out of love' (how do you do THAT?? and initially he told her he NEVER LOVED Target #1... so which was it?) with Target #1 in January 2004 and this was BEFORE he met Target #2. (This is an outright lie and pathologically typical attempt to rewrite history -- NO - It was DURING.... there was NO SEPARATION BY TIME - no matter how much gridney/ YidwithLid says it - he can't change REALITY)
gridney/ YidwithLid revises his 'tale' to Target #2 and says that he 'fell out of love' with Target #1 because she & FOT1 were 'taunting him sexually.' (the chat he referenced as 'taunting' didn't happen until LATE February 2004 according to archival records - just a couple weeks before he was CAUGHT, not mid-January as he tried to claim. Again even though he SAYS they were "separated by time" there was NO SEPARATION and LOADS of OVERLAP. Sammy Benoit is just a sexual predator.)
gridney/ YidwithLid COMPLETELY leaves out he initiated & had cybersex with Target #1 just 2 weeks earlier - in mid-February, WHILE involved with Target #2. And that he was still tossing sexual innuedo at Target #1 every time he felt like it. Again, there was NO separation by time between his Targets. Only large overlap.
(Predators LOVE to try to get people to believe their "truth" even when they bend time and change dates from person to person. We know of narcissists & sociopaths that say in COURTS OF LAW and UNDER OATH - certain things NEVER HAPPENED or are is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH. This is why they are so FRANTIC that Targets don't talk to each other and to keep their victims separate from each other! And they become enraged when people don't believe them!) gridney/ YidwithLid's very compartmentalized online victimizing & brainwashing is catching up with him - and he is freaking out and getting very enraged that his Targets are all talking and he's lost control.
gridney/ YidwithLid is scrambling to get a hold of Target #1 - who is so deeply traumatized she can't even speak to him; while at the same time making Target #1 out to be a 'scorned woman and a liar' to Target #2. (Classic predatory move!!)
14. FOT1 chats with gridney/ YidwithLid who continues to lie and puts his 'keyboard' in his mouth with inconsistencies, time fudging and lies.
FOT1 shares this with her friend, Target #1 as well as Target #2 - both of whom are having surreal moments about gridney/ YidwithLid's excuses and explanations.
gridney/ YidwithLid finds Target #1 - a girl from his past - and lures her in.
From Day One he was using her with no intention of anything other than playing with this trusting, deeply abused woman.
gridney/ YidwithLid uses the Cyberpathic techniques to seduce and entrap her in his online web of lies for 2 years/
gridney/ YidwithLid tries the SAME to Target #1s friends - FOT1, Kristen and Target #2
gridney/ YidwithLid uses Target #1's friends and her good words about him to try to springboard him into relationships with them: (i.e. "ask Target #1, she will tell you - I am a good guy")
Target #2 (Target #1's friend) innocently falls for gridney/ YidwithLid's seductive brainwashing too.
gridney/ YidwithLid smears Target #1 to Target #2 -- and eventually anyone who will listen to him and ONLY him.
Target #2 and Target #1 find out about each other and give each other the unvarnished truth.
gridney/ YidwithLid continues to try to spin, lie, rewrite history, blame shift and fudge things - without success this time and goes into a rage threatening Target #1 (later he posts hateful things about her all over the net, including a hate site; because he assumes she is the only one telling the truth about him... wrong!)
Target #1 sends 3 packages to gridney/ YidwithLid's wife with everything she knows and gives her hard copies along with a heartfelt apology and her contact information. gridney/ YidwithLid convinces wife Target #1 is a liar and it was all made-up or planted. Target #1 even sends her contact information to the wife and offers any help she can including helping find a counselor for his sex & porn addiction!
Target #2 tells gridney/ YidwithLid's employer, publishers and clients what he's up to.
gridney/ YidwithLid now tells Target #2 to 'leave him alone' and 'let [his wife] heal' (hold on, he told Target #2 he didn't love or care about his wife anymore, didn't he??) to pull his closed system of logic around his wife & family so he can continue to smear his Targets and control information.
gridney/ YidwithLid threatens Target #1 - says he will tell her ex-husband, get her kids taken away from her... and that he will go the police (TYPICAL threat!) in an attempt to scare her and shut her up. Eventually he & his wife do go to police with SELECTIVE information to try a pre-emptive strike to paint Target #1 as a harasser and stalker.
CHECK OUT WHAT MAY BE gridney/ YidwithLid's PLAYBOOK!! - CLICK HERE
(similar to ART OF SEDUCTION, found by law enforcement in his cache/ archival traces)
1. GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid gets in touch with Target #1 (Target #1 has been badly abused her whole life and is now disabled, trapped in a very abusive living situation and severely depressed which makes her a prime target)
GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid toys with her for 2 years telling her:
- he "can't control" himself around her:
- makes excuses not to see her for just lunch or a "HI";
- blames her for his endless sexual come-ons to her;
- tells her she's the "one that got away";
- emotionally "bombs" her to think they have a 'special bond' & one-of-kind relationship;
- SWEARS he's not toying with her or using her;
- and refuses to answer her direct questions....
2. Target #1 is manipulated by GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid to take ALL responsibility for the online-affair so when her ex-husband found out - she took physical & verbal abuse for GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid while he ran away from her!! And Target #1 excused it when GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid came back (BTW, GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid was upset that she was legally divorcing because of this and kept pushing her to go back to her abusive ex-husband or find a new real-life boyfriend!)
3. A few times Target #1 has tried to end it with GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid but is hoovered back in, thinking somehow she can help GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid and of course, GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid encourages her to think this.
GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid alternates between degrading, criticizing Target #1 and causing her deep psychological pain & becoming trauma-bonded to him; to smothering her with affection and playing on her compassion. Despite the cache records showing Target #1 told him repeatedly her illnesses had caused her to gain weight and that she was no longer attractive, gridney/ Yidwithlid insisted he was "not interested in her looks or physical attributes" but in HER. (LOL! These Cyberpaths all say the same B.S. They are into objectification and NOTHING ELSE.)
All in all, Target #1 is riding the cyberpath rollercoaster like most victims - confused, muddled and not knowing which end is up. (F.O.G. = Fear, Obligation, Guilt)
4. Target #1 has been helping GRIDNEY/ Yidwithlid by editing and cleaning up some of his articles. There is a very unclear relationship here. Friends? more than friend? boundary violations galore and mucho mindf*cking on the part of gridney/ YidwithLid - like most cyberpath seducers.
When Target #1 attempts boundaries or clarification, gridney/ YidwithLid punishes her by not speaking to her for a while. When Target #1 feels she needs some space because gridney/ Yidwithlid is pushing her away or being inappropriate - she blocks him - and he comes back and REELS HER BACK IN!
SEND MIXED SIGNALS
Once people are aware of your presence, and perhaps vaguely intrigued, you need to stir their interest before it settles on someone else. What is obvious and striking may attract their attention at first, but that attention is often short-lived; in the long run, ambiguity is much more potent. Most of us are much too obvious-instead, be hard to figure out.
Send mixed signals: both tough and tender, both spiritual and earthy, both innocent and cunning. A mix of qualities suggests depth, which fascinates even as it confuses. An elusive, enigmatic aura will make people want to know more, drawing them into your circle. Create such a power by hinting at something contradictory within you. - R. Greene -- The Art of Seduction
5. Target #1 introduces gridney/ YidwithLid to her friend FoT1. FoT1 is young and gridney/ YidwithLid tries to move in on her sexually too. FoT1 doesn't reveal this to Target #1 until later - because she wasn't sure if gridney/ YidwithLid was just kidding or not at the time.
Later we find - gridney/ YidwithLid is never kidding when it comes to a sexual target. And every women is a potential sexual target for him! Again, gridney/ YidwithLid violates ALL boundaries.
6. Twenty months into Target #1s 'psychological rollercoaster ride' with gridney/ YidwithLid - she introduces him to her new friend Target #2 and asks her to help with getting an article of gridney/ YidwithLid's placed.
gridney/ YidwithLid tells Target #2 he loves her and her only 3 weeks into it, makes plans to rendezvous with her on his employer's dime and that he no longer loves his wife and hasn't loved his wife in a long time. (remember he'd told Target #1 he was 'not demonstrative' and had a 'hard time expressing his feelings'? Seems gridney/ YidwithLid has no problems now! - LOL)
gridney/ YidwithLid also minimizes"Target #1" as just an 'old friend only' and portrays Target #1 as 'having a thing for', 'obsessed and fixated' on and 'pining away for' him (gridney/ YidwithLid) and has for years. (gridney/ Yidwithlid neglects to mention he looked up Target #1 - says it was the opposite -- AGAIN -- and that she's been obsessed with him for years. A complete lie) gridney/ YidwithLid says that he feels NOTHING for Target #1 and is only humoring her because he 'feels sorry' for Target #1.
gridney/ YidwithLid makes some very callous comments about Target #1 and basically makes sure that Target #1 and Target #2 DO NOT TALK TO EACH OTHER.
One of his 'reasons'? gridney/ Yidwithlid tells Target #2 that Target #1 will 'ruin their happiness' with her 'jealousy'. (LOL!! gridney/ YidwithLid really takes the cake for self-involved B.S. here)
7. Target #2 comes from a background of sexual, emotional & physical abuse (again, prime target - we bet most of gridney/ YidwithLid's girlfriends and past conquests as well as his wife, ALL come from abusive relationships, families - etc.
Cyberpaths LOVE to rush in and make themselves seem very galant with their Targets - when actually it is just a case of PREDATORS HUNT THE WOUNDED), as well as being a cover for their perversions.
APPEAR TO BE AN OBJECT OF DESIRE- CREATE TRIANGLESWith Target #1s innocent assurance about gridney/ YidwithLid, Target #2 starts making plans with him to meet gridney/ YidwithLid (on his employer's dime!) and start an affair.
Few are drawn to the person whom others avoid or neglect; people gather around those who have already attracted interest. We want what other people want. To draw your victims closer and make them hungry to possess you, you must create an aura of desirability - of being wanted and courted by many. It will become a point of vanity for them to be the preferred object of your attention, to win you away from a crowd of admirers.
Manufacture the illusion of popularity by surrounding yourself with members of the opposite sex-friends, former lovers, present suitors. Create triangles that stimulate rivalry and raise your value. Build a reputation that precedes you: if many have succumbed to your charms, there must be a reason. - R. Greene -- "The Art of Seduction"
8. gridney/ YidwithLid has been very cryptic all along. gridney/ YidwithLid habitually does things like:
- talk for hours, in lurid detail about the sexual activities he had with his ex-fiance to Target #1,
- tells Target #1and later Target #2, about his dismal marital relations, when, how and what, in great detail - painting himself as the long-suffering husband. (wait, didn't he say his wife was "cold" and "disappointing"?) Again, terrible boundaries.
- gridney/ YidwithLid also says cryptic things to Target #2. He explains to everyone that it's because of his ADHD. (ADHD has been connected to Adult Sociopathy)
USE THE DEMONIC POWER OF WORDS TO SOW CONFUSION9. Target #1 innocently sends a copy of an article she found interesting to both gridney/ YidwithLid and Target #2... not realizing they even know each other, are involved and are planning an affair!
It is hard to make people listen; they are consumed with their own thoughts and desires, and have little time for yours. The trick to making them listen is to say what they want to hear, to fill their ears with whatever is pleasant to them. This is the essence of seductive language. Inflame people's emotions with loaded phrases, flatter them, comfort their insecurities, envelop them in fantasies, sweet words, and promises, and not only will they listen to you, they will lose their will to resist you. Keep your language vague, letting them read into it what they want. Use writing to stir up fantasies and to create an idealized portrait of yourself. - R. Greene -- "The Art of Seduction"
10. Target #2 becomes suspicious and asks gridney/ YidwithLid if he's playing Target #1 and her! He vehemently denies it and continues to paint Target #1 as a pathetic loser (all the while STILL playing with Target #1s heart & mind)... and never gives Target #1 a hint he even KNOWS Target #2.
Target #2 finally gets fed up with the vague answers and cryptic comments she gets from gridney/ YidwithLid -- one of which is that Target #1 "doesn't want Target #2 and he to be friends." (Target #1 didn't even know they KNEW EACH OTHER!)
11. Target #2 finally contacts Target #1 - they spend over 36 hours either online or on the phone dissecting what is going on. For a few days, Target #2 doesn't know what to believe.
12. Target #1 can't bring herself to speak to gridney/ YidwithLid (who is calling and messaging her frantically to please speak with him - a switch from someone who left her dangling for days or weeks at a time).
Target #1 tells Target #2 to please go be with gridney/ YidwithLid - since she now has confirmation finally that he isn't into her. Target #1 was so brainwashed she simply "wants gridney/ Yidwithlid to be happy."
By now, Target #1 is either too faint, vomiting or attempting to hold it together for her children - she can barely talk on the phone let alone stand up - and she also told us she didn't sleep for days.
13. Target #2, Target #1 and FOT1 all start sharing communications they are getting from or got from gridney/ YidwithLid. Target #1 also is reminded gridney/ Yidwithlid tried to come on to her friend Kristen online early in their relationship. Kristen confirms he did this and she blocked him!
gridney/ YidwithLid is frantically adjusting his lies as he goes along, twisting, spinning, minimizing and bending time -- searching for a "story" that will work!
gridney/ YidwithLid, in one chat we received, told Target #2 he 'fell out of love' (how do you do THAT?? and initially he told her he NEVER LOVED Target #1... so which was it?) with Target #1 in January 2004 and this was BEFORE he met Target #2. (This is an outright lie and pathologically typical attempt to rewrite history -- NO - It was DURING.... there was NO SEPARATION BY TIME - no matter how much gridney/ YidwithLid says it - he can't change REALITY)
gridney/ YidwithLid revises his 'tale' to Target #2 and says that he 'fell out of love' with Target #1 because she & FOT1 were 'taunting him sexually.' (the chat he referenced as 'taunting' didn't happen until LATE February 2004 according to archival records - just a couple weeks before he was CAUGHT, not mid-January as he tried to claim. Again even though he SAYS they were "separated by time" there was NO SEPARATION and LOADS of OVERLAP. Sammy Benoit is just a sexual predator.)
gridney/ YidwithLid COMPLETELY leaves out he initiated & had cybersex with Target #1 just 2 weeks earlier - in mid-February, WHILE involved with Target #2. And that he was still tossing sexual innuedo at Target #1 every time he felt like it. Again, there was NO separation by time between his Targets. Only large overlap.
(Predators LOVE to try to get people to believe their "truth" even when they bend time and change dates from person to person. We know of narcissists & sociopaths that say in COURTS OF LAW and UNDER OATH - certain things NEVER HAPPENED or are is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH. This is why they are so FRANTIC that Targets don't talk to each other and to keep their victims separate from each other! And they become enraged when people don't believe them!) gridney/ YidwithLid's very compartmentalized online victimizing & brainwashing is catching up with him - and he is freaking out and getting very enraged that his Targets are all talking and he's lost control.
gridney/ YidwithLid is scrambling to get a hold of Target #1 - who is so deeply traumatized she can't even speak to him; while at the same time making Target #1 out to be a 'scorned woman and a liar' to Target #2. (Classic predatory move!!)
14. FOT1 chats with gridney/ YidwithLid who continues to lie and puts his 'keyboard' in his mouth with inconsistencies, time fudging and lies.
FOT1 shares this with her friend, Target #1 as well as Target #2 - both of whom are having surreal moments about gridney/ YidwithLid's excuses and explanations.
They are charismatic, ostensibly attractive personalities, likely to be widely admired, but with a naturally manipulative nature.
They can completely conceal their true selves.
- Dr. Mike Fox on "The Emotional Rapist"
gridney/ YidwithLid finds Target #1 - a girl from his past - and lures her in.
From Day One he was using her with no intention of anything other than playing with this trusting, deeply abused woman.
gridney/ YidwithLid uses the Cyberpathic techniques to seduce and entrap her in his online web of lies for 2 years/
gridney/ YidwithLid tries the SAME to Target #1s friends - FOT1, Kristen and Target #2
gridney/ YidwithLid uses Target #1's friends and her good words about him to try to springboard him into relationships with them: (i.e. "ask Target #1, she will tell you - I am a good guy")
Target #2 (Target #1's friend) innocently falls for gridney/ YidwithLid's seductive brainwashing too.
gridney/ YidwithLid smears Target #1 to Target #2 -- and eventually anyone who will listen to him and ONLY him.
Target #2 and Target #1 find out about each other and give each other the unvarnished truth.
gridney/ YidwithLid continues to try to spin, lie, rewrite history, blame shift and fudge things - without success this time and goes into a rage threatening Target #1 (later he posts hateful things about her all over the net, including a hate site; because he assumes she is the only one telling the truth about him... wrong!)
Target #1 sends 3 packages to gridney/ YidwithLid's wife with everything she knows and gives her hard copies along with a heartfelt apology and her contact information. gridney/ YidwithLid convinces wife Target #1 is a liar and it was all made-up or planted. Target #1 even sends her contact information to the wife and offers any help she can including helping find a counselor for his sex & porn addiction!
Target #2 tells gridney/ YidwithLid's employer, publishers and clients what he's up to.
gridney/ YidwithLid now tells Target #2 to 'leave him alone' and 'let [his wife] heal' (hold on, he told Target #2 he didn't love or care about his wife anymore, didn't he??) to pull his closed system of logic around his wife & family so he can continue to smear his Targets and control information.
gridney/ YidwithLid threatens Target #1 - says he will tell her ex-husband, get her kids taken away from her... and that he will go the police (TYPICAL threat!) in an attempt to scare her and shut her up. Eventually he & his wife do go to police with SELECTIVE information to try a pre-emptive strike to paint Target #1 as a harasser and stalker.
CHECK OUT WHAT MAY BE gridney/ YidwithLid's PLAYBOOK!! - CLICK HERE
(similar to ART OF SEDUCTION, found by law enforcement in his cache/ archival traces)
Reassure victims that they didn't do anything morally wrong, that they are not to blame for what happened to them, and that recovery is possible. - Dr. Mike Fox, Emotional Rape Syndrome
Sunday, June 17, 2007
ONLINE DATING: FOR CONVICTS?
From Lovefraud.com:
“His online personal ad shows him as a clean-cut, athletic man with a friendly face, a sense of humor and a love for the outdoors. Many women would consider him a serious prospect, based on his ad. The problem is, Mike Andes is a convicted murderer …”
A reader recently sent Lovefraud this news story about Prison Personals, produced by KATU in Portland, Oregon. It turns out that thousands of convicts are looking for love online.
Prisoners generally do not have access to the Internet. But apparently friends and family members can provide information to websites such as WriteAPrisoner.com, which then posts ads. Anyone who wants to respond to an ad—offering a gesture of friendship to someone behind bars—must send a reply via snail mail. According to KATU, the letters are flowing in.
READ THE REST OF THIS GREAT POST BY CLICKING HERE
“His online personal ad shows him as a clean-cut, athletic man with a friendly face, a sense of humor and a love for the outdoors. Many women would consider him a serious prospect, based on his ad. The problem is, Mike Andes is a convicted murderer …”
A reader recently sent Lovefraud this news story about Prison Personals, produced by KATU in Portland, Oregon. It turns out that thousands of convicts are looking for love online.
Prisoners generally do not have access to the Internet. But apparently friends and family members can provide information to websites such as WriteAPrisoner.com, which then posts ads. Anyone who wants to respond to an ad—offering a gesture of friendship to someone behind bars—must send a reply via snail mail. According to KATU, the letters are flowing in.
READ THE REST OF THIS GREAT POST BY CLICKING HERE
Saturday, June 16, 2007
TWO SEX CONVICTIONS IN ONLINE DATING CASE
(Philadelphia, PA) A man who told dates he met online tall tales of being a doctor, an astronaut and a CIA assassin was convicted Wednesday of two counts of sexual assault but acquitted of raping several women who accused him of drugging them.
Seven women, six of whom Jeffrey J. Marsalis met through the Match.com dating service, told similar stories of blacking out or becoming unusually intoxicated during dates from 2003 to 2005.
The jury reached its verdict on the fifth day of deliberations that were so contentious jurors were overheard shouting at each other earlier in the week. He was acquitted of eight rape counts and a count of impersonating a public servant.
Marsalis could get up to 20 years in prison for the two sexual assault counts at sentencing, set for Sept. 18.
Prosecutors said Marsalis, 34, of Philadelphia, was a smooth talker with a tony address and a penchant for chic bars and restaurants. The on-and-off nursing student spun tales about being a doctor, an astronaut or a secret agent.
The women, most of them well-educated professionals, gave authorities similar accounts of meeting Marsalis and then feeling unusually intoxicated after returning from the bathroom or letting him buy a round of drinks from the bar. They testified they woke up hours later at his apartment — groggy, sometimes undressed — after an apparent sexual encounter or even amid intercourse.
Marsalis' lawyer said the women were suffering from "buyer's remorse" after being duped about his accomplishments and dumped after consensual sex. Defense attorney Kathleen E. Martin said none of the victims went to police or a hospital afterward and were only sought out by police as part of an earlier case against Marsalis. (typical "scorned women" defense used by cyberpaths)
Marsalis was acquitted of three similar assaults in January 2006 and immediately charged in the latest cases. Another rape charge is pending against him in Sun Valley, Idaho.
Records show Marsalis has moved frequently, having lived in Park City, Utah; the Phoenix area, where he worked as a paramedic; a Seattle suburb; and South Florida.
ORIGINAL POST HERE
Hat Tip to EOPC Group Member "MaryAnn" for this story
Seven women, six of whom Jeffrey J. Marsalis met through the Match.com dating service, told similar stories of blacking out or becoming unusually intoxicated during dates from 2003 to 2005.
The jury reached its verdict on the fifth day of deliberations that were so contentious jurors were overheard shouting at each other earlier in the week. He was acquitted of eight rape counts and a count of impersonating a public servant.
Marsalis could get up to 20 years in prison for the two sexual assault counts at sentencing, set for Sept. 18.
"We're pleased that the jury recognized that Mr. Marsalis is not the wronglyThe jury could not reach a verdict on one rape count. Prosecutors had not decided whether to seek a second trial on that charge.
accused man he claimed to be," prosecutor Joseph Khan said. "He is a criminal. He is a sex offender."
Prosecutors said Marsalis, 34, of Philadelphia, was a smooth talker with a tony address and a penchant for chic bars and restaurants. The on-and-off nursing student spun tales about being a doctor, an astronaut or a secret agent.
The women, most of them well-educated professionals, gave authorities similar accounts of meeting Marsalis and then feeling unusually intoxicated after returning from the bathroom or letting him buy a round of drinks from the bar. They testified they woke up hours later at his apartment — groggy, sometimes undressed — after an apparent sexual encounter or even amid intercourse.
Marsalis' lawyer said the women were suffering from "buyer's remorse" after being duped about his accomplishments and dumped after consensual sex. Defense attorney Kathleen E. Martin said none of the victims went to police or a hospital afterward and were only sought out by police as part of an earlier case against Marsalis. (typical "scorned women" defense used by cyberpaths)
Marsalis was acquitted of three similar assaults in January 2006 and immediately charged in the latest cases. Another rape charge is pending against him in Sun Valley, Idaho.
Records show Marsalis has moved frequently, having lived in Park City, Utah; the Phoenix area, where he worked as a paramedic; a Seattle suburb; and South Florida.
ORIGINAL POST HERE
Hat Tip to EOPC Group Member "MaryAnn" for this story
Friday, June 15, 2007
gridney/ YidwithLid: Open Mouth - Insert Keyboard!
When caught by Targets #1 and #2 - as we said before gridney/ YidwithLid - like most cyberpaths - tried to SMOOTH it out. How? by lying, trying to bend time and rewriting history!
Online predators hope you haven't talked to anyone (or they make sure no one speaks to you by smearing you) or kept track - so that the cognitive dissonance they have planted in your brain can be reworked to make THEM the victim of circumstances.
Unfortunately gridney/ YidwithLid underestimated his Targets. And still does.
In this conversation he appealed to Target #1s dearest friend - whom they both knew. We will refer to this third woman as Friend of Target #1 or 'FOT1.' Target #1 had told FOT1 about her online relationship with gridney/ YidwithLid in the 2 years previous (btw, Yidwithlid tried to get this friend of Target #1s to play online sex games with him TOO! That makes THREE (3) of her friends he tried to prey on)
Target #1 - I had to tell someone. It was chewing me up inside.
FOT1 asked me to introduce them and I did. She wanted to see how sincere he was - since like a true friend, she is very protective of me - but gridney/ YidwithLid fooled her too.... until we also caught him in his lies.
FOT1 also told us that gridney/ YidwithLid tried to have cybersex with her a couple times but she shut him down. He also accused FOT1 & Target #1 of "sexually taunting him" online. It was the other way around, of course.
Find out a narcissist's depiction of you. You get hints of the picture they have of you in what they say and how they treat and react to you. Be prepared for a stupefying shock. Find out how the narcissist depicts you to others. I guarantee that you won't recognize yourself. The narcissist's depiction of you bears no resemblance to reality.
He just makes it up according to his whim and fancy as he goes along. And, being the author of this work of fiction, he can change it overnight. Which explains why you often see a narcissist's opinion of someone go upside-down overnight. That's what an editor's pen can do to a work of fiction.
Narcissists' cavalier attitude in doing this is breathtaking.
Callous is what callous does.
ORIGINAL
gridney/ YidwithLid (like all cyberpaths) tries to rewrite history and tell absolute stone cold lies to FOT1 to try to discredit Target #1 some more, not realizing Target #1 already told FOT1 everything; and even introduced FOT1 online to Target #2 hours before.
FOT1 plays dumb to see what Yidwithlid will try to tell her (get out your hipboots - the 'poor me' doo-doo gets pretty deep here)
Watch as gridney/ YidwithLid, like a typical predator - starts playing around with the parsing he will probably practice over & over until he comes to a consensus as to what to tell to his wife and friends about all these poor Victims for years to come!! (our comments in DARK BLUE):
FOT1: hey gridney/ YidwithLid
gridney/ YidwithLid: I am an ass
FOT1: well, ok
FOT1: what makes you say that???
gridney/ YidwithLid: Its a long story
FOT1: do tell
gridney/ YidwithLid: ok
gridney/ YidwithLid: I met someone online that I really care about
gridney/ YidwithLid: it happened after that nite
The night' gridney/ YidwithLid got so upset [see below] and told Target #1 she was 'just about sex and always had been' was February 20, 2004 according to the chat logs.
So -- he was already involved with Targets #1 AND #2 at the same time. No separation. In fact, LARGE overlap! THIS IS WHY ITS SO IMPORTANT TO SAVE CHATS WHEN SOMETHING'S GOING ON and TELL SOMEONE so they can validate what is going on!!)
gridney/ YidwithLid: well you know when I got upset that night
(one night Target #1 and FOT1 and gridney/ YidwithLid were online chatting - the three of them got to joking around about sex and gridney/ YidwithLid got so 'upset' he left.
In reality -- he left to go have cybersex with Target #2.
When Target #1 asked him what was wrong - he BLAMED her & FOT1 for 'torturing him.' gridney/ YidwithLid even went so far as to tell Target #2 that FOT1 & Target#1 purposely TOYED with him - in order to further win Target #2s sympathy and turn her against Target #1... for cyberpath insurance)
FOT1: right
FOT1: hey
FOT1: remind me again why you got upset? I was never really clear on that
gridney/ YidwithLid: because honestly I felt that I was being toyed with.
(LIE - he just couldn't do sex chat with 2 different windows open at once)
gridney/ YidwithLid: anyway..Target #1 and I stayed online that night
gridney/ YidwithLid: very late
(FOT1 KNOWS that gridney/ YidwithLid only spoke to Target #1 briefly and gridney/ YidwithLid said the following (paraphrased & confirmed): " The truth is the reason I will never sleep with you is that for me it would be JUST about sex and it would mess you up too much!" after which gridney/ YidwithLid coldly blocked Target #1.
The whole chat between gridney/ YidwithLid and Target #1 lasted about 15 minutes not 'till 3am' as gridney/ YidwithLid tried to say. FOT1 confirmed that she knew it too because Target #1 and FOT1 talked together until LATE THAT EVENING about gridney/ YidwithLid's bizarre behavior towards them online! So he's blatantly lying trying to play martyr.
gridney/ YidwithLid had just blown off Target #1 with a malicious comment and no real talk or explanation... of course the comment was finally an honest one - it was ALWAYS JUST ABOUT SEX WITH HER! Target #1 was stunned and sick. Remember she'd been defending him and taking abuse because of him!
[Note here readers: According to chat records - 2 days after gridney/ YidwithLid's outburst of honesty when he told Target #1 it was 'just about sex' for him - he PROFUSELY apologized, said he'd 'forgotten to take his antidepressants' and 'didn't know what came over' him - in order to reel Target #1 back in.
In the SAME chat he said he was going away on business for a week and would be BUSY. Target #1 said he was online quite a bit that week and didn't even have the decency to block her so Target #1 saw him online much of the time he was away.
Target #2 confirmed he was having non-stop cybersex while out of town, with her.
So gridney/ YidwithLid was 'working.' Guess who he was WORKING on and cybersex-bombing that whole week? Yes... Target #2!]
Target #1 had been devalued and was going to be drop kicked ASAP. Yes, even the "friendship" with gridney/ YidwithLid she held so dear was going to get disposed of because gridney/ YidwithLid was BORED with her and didn't feel like dealing with the abusive ex-husband in the picture. Despite the fact gridney/ YidwithLid started the relationship and the abuse was BECAUSE of gridney/ YidwithLid.
gridney/ YidwithLid who professed to be so caring - could have cared less!)
FOT1: well you should have said something to us
FOT1: we always joke around like that
gridney/ YidwithLid: I did
gridney/ YidwithLid: 'to target #1
gridney/ YidwithLid: then I went away
FOT1: right
gridney/ YidwithLid: and then when I got back I pulled away from target #1
gridney/ YidwithLid: I had to it was making me crazy
(its TARGET #1's fault he's a sex addict?)
FOT1: what was making you crazy?
gridney/ YidwithLid: tension
gridney/ YidwithLid: we both wanted to sleep with each other but knew it could never happen (BALONEY! another lie!)
gridney/ YidwithLid: we talked about it till like 3 in the morning
(complete LIE - Target #1 was so upset by gridney/ YidwithLid that evening - she & FOT1 spoke for hours the same evening. BOTH were totally mystified about why gridney/ YidwithLid got so upset! - see above.
Now they know - gridney/ YidwithLid can't manipulate too many targets AT THE SAME TIME)
gridney/ YidwithLid: anyway I started talking to someone online and we got very close
(he was already talking to her. He'd already TARGETED the next woman Target #1 unwittingly introduced to him, using Target #1s kind words about him as his calling card!)
gridney/ YidwithLid: I was even making a buisness trip to go meet her
(MAKING a business trip? just to see a target and get laid... or do business? If its the former, and it was!... that's fraud. Online predators will use anything to get what they want.
REMEMBER - gridney/ YidwithLid had been unemployed and was desperately job hunting when he first started with Target #1 two years prior. Now gridney/ YidwithLid has a job and he admits he's using job resources for cybersex, phone sex and to plan an affair. Unfortunately -- his boss forgave him or looked the other way.)
gridney/ YidwithLid: Well yesterday her and Target #1 talked and now they are both so hurt
FOT1: hang on - but you practically had to be coaxed out with a handful of sugar cubes to go meet Target #1 for LUNCH! (see bottom of this post for Target #1s comments about that one lunch with gridney/ YidwithLid)
gridney/ YidwithLid: no
gridney/ YidwithLid: I was supposed to see her next week
FOT1: Yes, for the second time in 2 years
gridney/ YidwithLid: because I could deal with it now
(poor gridney/ YidwithLid huh? deal with WHAT?? notice him dangling the prospect of a 'real friendship' with Target #1 now. A promise he never had any intention of keeping. Or because he had a new target? We think the latter.)
gridney/ YidwithLid: now you know the reason I felt I couldn't
gridney/ YidwithLid: and now I have hurt her
gridney/ YidwithLid: now I have hurt Target #2
gridney/ YidwithLid: and most importantly I have lost her as a friend
(which one gridney/ YidwithLid? Online predators have no real friends - only prey. Who treats a FRIEND the way you treated Target #1!)
gridney/ YidwithLid: I have been throwing up all morning (sympathy ploy)
FOT 1: DESTROYED her, gridney/ YidwithLid. The word is DESTROYED. You have no idea the amount of abuse she puts up with in your name on a daily basis for something she never even did!
gridney/ YidwithLid: thats why I was reluctent to see her to make it worse and I have anyway
(no he was a coward and playing games - notice how like a typical predator he paints himself as chivalrous & thoughtful)
FOT1: so don't throw up
gridney/ YidwithLid: Im so nauseous
(boo hoo... notice how gridney/ YidwithLid talks about HIMSELF now for the most part and not a word or thought as to what his targets must be thinking & feeling. Revealing himself as at least a destructive narcissist)
FOT1: so what are you going to do then?
gridney/ YidwithLid: I dont know
gridney/ YidwithLid: FOT1 -- I do love target #1 and dont want to lose her out of my life
gridney/ YidwithLid: I dont know what to do
(sympathy ploy again - looking to involve Target #1's good friend in bailing him out)
gridney/ YidwithLid: except throw up
FOT1: you love her?
gridney/ YidwithLid: yes but not in a romantic sense anymore. It started going away that night
(what? how does love and honest emotion "START going away"?
gridney/ YidwithLid again is BLAMING Target #1 for HIS immature emotional state and the fact that he never had any feelings towards her. The whole relationship was a set up from day one on his part. A set up towards a woman he'd known almost 30 YEARS! and her friends! Shameless)
This is the SAME guy who 2 years ago told Target #1 he "couldn't feel" emotion and then that he "couldn't control. REMEMBER? )
FOT1: so you did love her in a romantic sense at one point?
gridney/ YidwithLid: yes
FOT1: did you ever tell hr?
gridney/ YidwithLid: no
gridney/ YidwithLid: not exactly
FOT1: well gridney/ YidwithLid you either tell someone you love them or you don't
(FOT1 knows that gridney/ YidwithLid has now been LOVE BOMBING Target #2 - telling her he loved her and she was his soulmate; a women he'd never even MET IN PERSON... but doesn't reveal that to gridney/ YidwithLid yet)
gridney/ YidwithLid: no I didnt
(of course he didn't - gridney/ YidwithLid dangled it to keep Target #1 in his web of deception and pain so he could continue to inflict emotional torture on her and use her online for sexual gratification and kicks)
gridney/ YidwithLid: but eveytime we tried to stop we couldnt
(wait! gridney/ YidwithLid initiated the relationships with BOTH targets! Didn't Target #1 try a number of times to stop it & leave and gridney/ YidwithLid kept reeling her back in?? And from confirmed unaltered chat histories we read - gridney/ YidwithLid initiated 99% of the cybersex with Target #1. Cyberpath - BLAME Shifting (ie 'its not MY fault!))
gridney/ YidwithLid: but I forced myself
FOT1: you forced yourself?
FOT1: Or you found it easier because you had someone else to play with?
gridney/ YidwithLid: no because that happened almost two month before I met Target #2
(this is a complete lie - he and Target #1 had cybersex, initiated by him, just a couple weeks before this conversation - confirmed by EOPC.
gridney/ YidwithLid just ignores FOT1's brilliant comment above - which, if you read it again, was right on the money!)
FOT1: how did you meet her?
gridney/ YidwithLid: she commented on one off my articles so I sent her a thank you
(another COMPLETE lie - Target #1 introduced them, remember? gridney/ YidwithLid is practicing his 'story' and 'historical juggling' already. Target #2 said Yid BEGGED her to open up IM with him! Cyberpaths always practice their stories to edit for believability)
gridney/ YidwithLid: and she email back
(Blame- Shifting again. The truth was gridney/ YidwithLid INITIATED the relationship with Target #2 also)
FOT1: you send thank yous to everyone who comments?
(even the MEN? And we know he COLLECTS email addresses from his site)
gridney/ YidwithLid: yes
gridney/ YidwithLid: I do
gridney/ YidwithLid: read the bottom of one of my articles
gridney/ YidwithLid: it says right there
FOT 1: k
gridney/ YidwithLid: He reads and responds to all of his mail, so comment by here
FOT1: oh, yeah, of course I remember now
gridney/ YidwithLid: and then we started emailing
(WE? Who initiated? Guess!)
gridney/ YidwithLid: and iming
gridney/ YidwithLid: and one thing led to another
(gridney/ YidwithLid purposely seduced Target #2 also, he means. gridney/ YidwithLid is one horny guy with a keyboard, huh? Does he just initiate cybersex with every female he knows online who isn't a family member? Looks like it! Misogynist.)
FOT1: gridney/ YidwithLid you do know Target #1 loved you, and that for her love is something she tries to avoid because it has only ever brought her pain
gridney/ YidwithLid: until we had a big fight yesterday
(gridney/ YidwithLid pays NO attention to what FOT1 just said, too busy thinking of plausible lies. Additionally - There was no fight with Target #2 according to her; other than Yidwithlid not wanting to answer a direct question and getting offline fast!)
gridney/ YidwithLid: I had a big fight with her yesterday because.. she didnt want me to be friends with target #1
(another complete lie - it was gridney/ YidwithLid who didn't want Targets #1 and #2 to be friends. Classic Cyberpath move - reverse or split the truth and keep targets apart at all costs!)
gridney/ YidwithLid: and the rest as we say is history
(glibness .... inappropriate considering the seriousness of what's happening)
FOT1: how does she know Target #1?
gridney/ YidwithLid: they met on a newsgroup (another LIE)
FOT1: oh, right
gridney/ YidwithLid: thats how she got to read mystuff
(No, another lie...Target #1 SENT gridney/ YidwithLid's writing to Target #2 & asked her help in getting it circulated... remember? He owes Target #1 some big thanks but no way will he thank her. More gridney/ YidwithLid twisting reality)
gridney/ YidwithLid: I asked target #1 if I could call her and she is ignoring me
FOT1: well from the sound of it that's not surprising
gridney/ YidwithLid: she told target #2 that I said bad things about her which is not true
(yet ANOTHER lie for sympathy - sounds kind of high school/immature too.)
And just guess what has gridney/ YidwithLid been saying about Target #1 and FOT1 to Target #2)
FOT1: why would she lie
gridney/ YidwithLid: I never said anything cause I knew it would hurt her
(no gridney/ YidwithLid, you never said anything because you liked lying and dishonesty and toying with your targets.
Again - notice gridney/ YidwithLid TOTALLY avoids FOT1's comment that her friend isn't the type to lie or a liar. gridney/ YidwithLid just keeps pushing his story)
gridney/ YidwithLid: I swear
(anyone who has to SWEAR they are telling the truth ...... is hiding something)
FOT1: Target #1 doesn't lie
(Targets #1 and #2 have no motive to lie! Only gridney/ YidwithLid does...
REMEMBER that when dealing with Online Predators - remember WHO has reason to be lying.... you or them?)
gridney/ YidwithLid: I never discussed Target #2 with Target #1
(of COURSE he didn't - he was playing a game called Triangulation)
gridney/ YidwithLid: On my life
(what life would that be?)
gridney/ YidwithLid: gtg
~~~~~
gridney/ YidwithLid: Target #1 wouldnt pic up her mobile
(gridney/ YidwithLid was frantically trying to call Target #1 now.... to try to anchor more lies)
FOT1: well I did say to leave a message. She's a busy woman
gridney/ YidwithLid: I dont know
FOT1: you know how it is... kids and all, also she's ill, remember
gridney/ YidwithLid: Her vioce mail didnt pic up
gridney/ YidwithLid: I dont htink
gridney/ YidwithLid: I ddint hear a beeb
gridney/ YidwithLid: but Italked anyway
FOT1: what'd you say?
gridney/ YidwithLid: I said that I didnt want to loseher from my life that she was too important and could we talk
(gridney/ YidwithLid later left that same 'canned comment' on Target #1 and Target #2s home numbers - showing it was planned and calculated.)
BTW readers, if Target#1 was so "important" wouldn't gridney/ YidwithLid have shown more consideration or introduced Target #1 to his family as she requested in the first place or had lunch with her right away - 2 years back? What was truly important was that he SHUT UP EVERYONE as FAST as he could & told his wife & family a spun story to protect himself.
No! Yidwithlid decided to use & abuse Target #1 from day one. He looked her up for sex. Period.
Keeping her a secret and using her woundedness and old feelings for him to lead her into a sick relationship that he could twist her anyway he wanted and keep her online as an object and out of his real life. User.)
FOT1: gridney/ YidwithLid she's been awake for 30 hours
FOT1: she's distraught
FOT1: gridney/ YidwithLid
FOT1: you've utterly destroyed any trust she had in you
FOT1: you've made her feel used
gridney/ YidwithLid: I know (no you don't you couldn't POSSIBLY!)
gridney/ YidwithLid: but I wasnt
gridney/ YidwithLid: I swear
(again with the 'I swear' - protesting their innocence - like Brad Dorsky, Nathan E.B. Thomas, Ed Hicks, Doug Beckstead and so on... Deny Deny Deny.)
FOT1: you weren't what?
FOT1: using her?
gridney/ YidwithLid: we were supposed to meet next week
FOT1: so?
gridney/ YidwithLid: I asked her to keep the lucnh
gridney/ YidwithLid: so w can talk
FOT1: you know, if I were her I wouldn't want to talk to you
FOT1: I would feel very used and betrayed
gridney/ YidwithLid: I know
(no gridney/ YidwithLid you wouldn't know - he's too busy trying to dig himself out of the pit he's gotten himself in. Both targets were deeply traumatized... Target #2 was enraged, as you will find out )
FOT1: you were using her, weren't you
gridney/ YidwithLid: no
gridney/ YidwithLid: I wasnt (yes you were. from the get-go!)
FOT1: well; what else do you call cybersex with her, and then another woman, with no intention of anything else?
gridney/ YidwithLid: I told you how it happedn and they were sepreated by time
(again trying to sell his LIE about times & dates. gridney/ YidwithLid is going to stick to this story now that he's decided on it. Just like Charles "Ed" Hicks, Doug Beckstead and Dan Jacoby)
gridney/ YidwithLid: and there was an intention
(gridney/ Yidwithlid - you are supposedly in sales so you should know better! you never give a "buy" indication with no intention of really BUYING. You NEVER seduce & use a vulnerable woman and then just leave her hanging... especially one you've known all those years!! This was a PERSON not a THING!)
FOT1: what did you intend?
(reminder: she's asking about HER FRIEND Target #1 - and now check gridney/ YidwithLid's SELFISH predatory response:)
gridney/ YidwithLid: I had set up a trip to see Target #2
( FOT1 meant HER FRIEND - what was gridney/ YidwithLid's intention with her friend -Target #1! He's still thinking he can get some free sex out of this somewhere!
The person gridney/ YidwithLid had been toying with for 2 years?... stupid gridney/ YidwithLid just jammed his foot into his mouth even further! - FOT1 now loses her cool....)
FOT1: I meant MY friend,Target #1! Not your newest girlfriend, Target #2.
You've been lying and toying with Target #1 for 2 years with no intention other than to twist her into knots and using her! So, what do you expect after what you've done to my best friend? Lied about ME, too. I tell you what, gridney/ YidwithLid, you best be sh*tting yourself. You ********. And you call yourself a spiritual man. I think not. All you think about is your **** and I wish you everything you deserve. What a filthy lying s**tbag you are.
After this FOT1 revealed to Target #1 that gridney/ YidwithLid had tried a few times to initiate cybersex with her but she blew him right off. He did the same to Target #1s friend Kristen. gridney/ YidwithLid when confronted said he was 'only kidding.' (Cyberpaths ALWAYS minimize or justify their behavior)
FOT1 knew for 2 years about Target#1 and gridney/ YidwithLid's 'relationship.' She had NO INTENTION of being gridney/ YidwithLid's next victim and didn't want to hurt Target #1 in case she was WRONG about him. Online Predators make everyone second guess themselves!
Target #2 told us that gridney/ YidwithLid had reported to her that FOT1 & Target #1 liked to "taunt him sexually" online and make him "feel bad." So of course, Target #2 (who was in love with gridney/ YidwithLid) - hated FOT1 & Target #1 for doing this to him. Exactly what gridney/ YidwithLid the predator wanted.
Notice how gridney/ YidwithLid sowed hatred amongst these women to attempt make sure they didn't compare his stories & to protect HIMSELF! (Target #2's statement to us bears out that gridney/ YidwithLid told her untrue stories about the other two women)
By the way - FOT1? Is young enough to be gridney/ YidwithLid's daughter! Cyberpaths who are sexual addicts have NO BOUNDARIES and no shame.
~~~~
Target #1: "I finally told gridney/ YidwithLid in August 2003 - 'lunch or let's just stop chatting - this is getting ridiculous' and I told him 'things have to change.' I gave him a chance to get out, figuring he'd lost interest.
But no.... he got back to me the next day with a date and time to 'have lunch' - 3 weeks from my ultimatum.
It didn't go well. gridney/ YidwithLid was stand-offish and didn't look me in the eye. The conversation revolved around pleasantries with ZERO acknowledgement of what had passed between us. He positioned us at a table where he could sit FAR away from me.
Besides the remoteness and stinging reserve, the most disturbing thing he did was upon leaving. There was a short flight of stairs to negotiate. I gingerly walked by the wall so I could steady myself. Due to my disability, my legs aren't always reliable. Rather than stepping in and helping me, like most normal people do, he stood at the bottom of the stairs and backed away like I was a monster. He should have just called me ugly, pathetic or something - it would have been more honest. I cried in the car on the way home.
The question that gave us the best picture of the psychopath in action was “How did he act when you were ill?” Illness implies vulnerability which is a perfect time for a psychopath to take advantage of someone.
Since psychopaths get bored easily and being ill is fairly boring, it is easy to anticipate that a psychopath would be “challenged” to be consistently helpful in illness. Couple the sense of being bored with a lack of empathy, compassion, and very low cooperation and you can pretty much guarantee she’ll have to take care of herself if she gets sick.
He either got bored with helping or he only helped when others were around watching. The overwhelming majority of the psychopaths didn’t give care when someone needed it. In fact many of the psychopaths ignored serious and life threatening illnesses in their mates. Here are some of the typical answers:
“He doesn’t show empathy or any kind of support.”
“He didn’t offer to help me get better. He would call and feign sympathy. But all he really wanted to find out was if I was well enough to come over so he could use me for sex.”
Sandra Brown, MA - WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS
And true to gridney/ YidwithLid's programming of me and my belief I could 'help' him, I became part of the pattern again, even after this lunch that demonstrated his true and malignant character.
"Tension? Couldn't control? Making him crazy? gridney/ YidwithLid could 'handle it now"? What does this sound like to you, readers? - Fighter
This gets more twisted - come back for more this month!
There are two other significant features of emotional rape, the first being sudden reversal. The second characteristic is that victims feel extremely "used" and fear they will never be able to love or trust again. - Dr. Mike Fox
yidwithlid
Thursday, June 14, 2007
If Your Past Comes Calling....
If it hasn't already happened to you, someday it will: You'll pick up the phone or open an e-mail and suddenly get a blast from the past. Out of the blue, you'll hear from someone you used to know.
It might be a former classmate, hoping to see you at the next reunion. Or a colleague from a previous job who's passing through town. Or a teenage crush who looked you up on the Internet. Or an enemy seeking to make amends.
"It's a wonderful thing to do, to touch base with people, to see how people live their lives, to see how people lived out their dreams. You connect the present to the past," says Laurie Puhn, president of a professional and personal development training firm in New York.Internet Web sites and search engines, such as classmates.com, Peoplefinders.com, Google and ZabaSearch, are making it easy to track down people from the past. The research can lead to exciting reunions that reignite old friendships.
It also can lead to a world of trouble if, say, your nemesis is still holding a grudge. Or a long-lost buddy is looking to crash on your couch indefinitely. Or that now-married old flame wants to catch up with you, sans his or her spouse.
READ THE REST OF THIS ARTICLE HERE
Wednesday, June 13, 2007
GRIDNEY/ YidwithLid's Mountain of Lies Start to Unravel...
originally posted in February 2005
In January 2004 Yidwithlid (aka GRIDNEY) wrote an article that Target #1 gladly helped edit for him (his spelling and syntax is atrocious from what we have read on his personal website). As always, EOPC's editors comments in purple. It gets confusing - so feel free contact EOPC for clarification.
Target #1 then introduced him to an online female friend (we'll call her Target #2) that she'd just started emailing with across the country who was involved with similar issues . Target #1 asked Target #2 to help place his article in a couple more places.
(Target #2 independently confirmed to us that it was Target #1 who introduced them. EOPC conducted phone interviews with Target #2 - without Target #1 knowing - so we could be sure they were not concocting a story. Law enforcement has also confirmed the facts before telling us they had to go silent because of a "larger" investigation - which we will talk about later.)
Target #1 eventually learned that VERY shortly after introducing them, Yidwithlid initiated an online affair with Target #2
(We are unable to get permission from Target #2 to publish her IMs with Yidwithlid as she did not save most of them. She did however consent to independent interviews with us)
Target #1 - I had no idea they knew each other, outside me introducing them. Target #2 told me about 2-3 days after she helped place the article Yidwithlid wrote (supposedly at my suggestion) Yidwithlid asked Target #2 to open an IM window one day.
At the same time I was writing her, trying to get to know her better - seemed we had a lot in common. Target #2 would ask me questions about Yidwithlid and I was so dumb - I just said he was a great person. Little did I know he'd totally trashed me, made up outrageous lies about my past & present relationship to him and was starting to do his "love bombing" to her.
Target #2 ALSO came from an unhappy marriage and a background of sexual & emotional abuse so, once again was an easy target for Yidwithlid. Target #2 told us she stopped communicating with Target #1 for many weeks at Yidwithlids insistence. (Typical Cyberpath - SEPARATE YOUR TARGETS!)
(Target #2: "he told me he had taken Target #1s virginity (that's a lie readers, designed to anchor Yidwithlid's lies that Target #1 was obsessed with him. See how similar all these people are in creating a very plausible platform from which to prey on the wounded!) and she was stalking him. That he loved only ME and was just humoring her. Yidwithlid said some really nasty things about her. So I did what he said. I believed him!")
One evening, Target #2 told us she got very tired of Yidwithlids cryptic comments and finally IM'd Target #1 to ask her a question about Yidwithlid.
Target #1 - I had cc'd both of them on an article I had stumbled across that day. As I said, I didn't even KNOW they knew each other. Little did I know this triggered a series of events that finally led to the horrible truth coming out.
Target #2 and I spent a good hour just verbally avoiding saying anything about our true relationships to Yidwithlid. Finally I came right out and asked "are you having cybersex with him?" Her answer "Yes.... and more." I asked her for her phone number immediately. My whole body went cold and bile came up my throat.
Yidwithlid and I had had very intense cybersex just a few days before. It had upset me because I didn't want to but I couldn't help myself (he had her in his "thrall" readers! Like all of them)In fact, that time J'd texted messaged me on my cell just a few minutes after I signed off from a very boring chat with him! It was BIZARRE because when I signed back on my computer at his request, it was like talking to another person!! (Dissociative fugue of a sex addict readers! Yidwithlid couldn't find anyone else online so he just decided to have a little fun with Target #1 KNOWING she was already compliant)
I had had many indications from Yidwithlid for the months prior something more was going on - here was the awful truth. But it was the tip of the iceberg. I asked him outright a few times if he was ok because he worried me. Yidwithlid was very malicious to me even saying one time:
"You want the truth? OK, if I was with you it would just be about sex. Its always been about just sex with you." - Yidwithlid
And he left (FINALLY he told the horrifying truth to this woman knowing she'd agreed to the relationship and was now brainwashed with his 'help' to say in it)
A couple days later he wrote me he'd forgotten to take his depression meds and he was truly sorry - please not to stop talking to him. (lie)I was in a total mental fog by then about right & wrong.
Target #2 told us that Yidwithlid told Target #2 the following over the 5 weeks of their chatting. Remember Yidwithlid knew Target #1 in person but had never met Target #2 (does any of this sound familiar to you?):
- they were "soulmates,"
- Target #2 was Yidwithlids one and only
- he didn't love his wife at all
- He & Target #2 were 'twin souls'
- that Target #1 'lost her virginity to him' and that was why she been stalking him for years (remember Yidwithlid made first contact with Target #1 - and when we asked Target #1 she said no, she'd broken up with a long term boyfriend/ fiance in high school back then who'd taken her virginity and Yidwithlid was well aware of that fact!)
- Yidwithlid had offered to buy a video camera for Target #2 to make him 'personal movies'
- offered Target #2 money to help her out and pay for them to take trips together
- called Target #2 sometimes 3-4 times a day to talk and/or have phone sex (from a cell phone his job was paying for; see the cheaters 'how to' book!)
- he would be online with Target #2 while NOT EVEN BOTHERING to block Target #1 - willfully ignoring her ( both of them said Yidwithlid would put up a "WORKING" message - like all of them: working on more TARGETS or watching porn to fill his dialogue with targets)
- that he hated porn (remember the past posts about his penchant for PORN - and later - loads of porn sites are traced to his IP and credit card!!)
- had given Target #2 his business phone, his cell number and a variety of ways to contact him
- that he was just being nice to Target #1 and "never loved [Target #1], never!!"
- Yidwithlid had set up a meeting with a client not far from Target #2 so she could come meet him to start a physical affair, and stay at his hotel on Yidwithlids employer's dime
- he LOVED Target #2 and was IN LOVE with her (repeatedly)
- had planned more trips (around business meetings paid for by his employer at the time) for himself & Target #2 so their "love could go on forever"
- had specifically told Target #2 NOT to communicate with Target #1 ("if you tell [Target #1] she will be jealous and ruin our happiness")
Target #1: During our conversation (which went on all night and into the next day) Target #2 and I both realized Yidwithlid weaving a tapestry of lies and conceit, the details of which are perplexing, often silly and horribly painful. It was now painfully evident that Yidwithlid was a deeply sick person.
Where the lies ended and the truth started, its doubtful even he knew. Some lies were exactly the same, some were polar opposites, some were anchored in partial truths, some were real WTF moments. And in the interest of pleasing someone I cared for - I went along with it all. I was horrified and wanted to die.
It was finally clear to me what I had known in college, and what he worked so hard to dispel that he was not "into" me. In fact, Target #2 and I compared some dates and times:
- Yidwithlid told had 'broken down' and 'admitted' he was IN LOVE with Target #2 the day before he had last had cybersex with me. (independently verified by EOPC with Target #2)
- Yidwithlid was too cowardly to tell me truth himself - though I had asked him point blank a few times.
- Yidwithlid wouldn't admit I'd introduced him to Target#2- tried to tell everyone he met Target #2 via his website - but even Target #2 said "no, she [Target #1] introduced us!" (independently verified by EOPC with Target #2)
- Yidwithlid had steadfastly refused to give me his phone number, supposedly for fear his wife or my ex-husband would find out; even as a friend knowing I was taking abuse because of Yidwithlid. My ex-husband already HAD it and had given it to me 18 months prior! I had it but I NEVER used it or violated this information. I was waiting for him to stop all the nonsense but got sucked into it because of my lack of ego. I had no intention and never have had, of hurting his wife, family or kids.
- Also, later law enforcement showed me it was all online anyway - and anyone could have found it by surfing on "gridney" and then using zabasearch on his real name.
Now Yidwithlid's sickness and dysfunction was plain as day; mine was harder to get at. My therapists have explained to me I had been brainwashed and reeled in with the obsession Yidwithlid'd seductively planted in my brain that somehow I could help him and that he 'needed' me.
Readers, Cyberpaths relish doing this to their victims - even when caught they plant their 'hooks' deep and the Targets turn themselves inside out to remove them. Targets often spend weeks, months and years trying to figure out what happened - Cyberpaths just tell selective truth to their partners and counselors and tell everyone else to "move on" & "get over it" to avoid further scrutiny!
They have probably been lying about so much stuff in their lives they will blame everyone around them and "shut down" all inquiries into the house of sand their lives are built on.
Yes, EOPC has had demands and threats to remove postings from Cyberpaths. Unless we have hard and verified information that the posts were NOT TRUE, they stay up!
Now REMEMBER - Target #1 had tried a few times to discontinue with Yidwithlid with the nagging thought that in the 2 years prior that Yidwithlid was no longer interested in her - Yidwithlid would come back and BOMB Target #1 with how much she meant to him and “please don't stop talking to me."
REMEMBER the first posts about him? Their chats? Yidwithlid'd told Target #1 he wasn't demonstrative ('I was too laid back & too macho to tell you how I felt'- was approximately how he put their earlier and current 'relationship'). Yet here Yidwithlid was telling a woman he had never met in person that he "LOVED her, never loved his wife", made plans to see her, sent Target #2 all his emails & phone numbers and basically chased her like a hungry lion.
(EOPC note: Target #2 has admitted that she was registered with sites like AdultFriendFinder and JDate - despite being married at that time. She doesn't see anything wrong with because she said her "husband gave her permission." )
In one chat we read, Target #1 was hurt but STILL trying to be Yidwithlids 'friend' -- she told Target #2 to go ahead and be with him because obviously she couldn't help him & after 26 years and she just wanted him to be happy.
We are amazed that cyberpaths so CONSISTENTLY refuse accountability for what they have done and not only DENY but pin the lion's share of blame and responsibility on their Targets!! (remember Nathan Thomas asked HIS victim 'not to cause him trouble & annoy him')
Yidwithlid had been setting this up for some time - by turning around his seduction and manipulation of Target #1 by saying things to her like "if you want to" and "its up to you"... REMEMBER? and sorry but:
TRUE jealous stalkers and lovesick women don't tell rivals to 'go ahead and be with' the object of their affection!!
But there's more! as Yidwithlid turns this whole thing around on both Targets.... almost. (and then he will blame them, play the hurt party and cut off all contact because they know the truth - and Cyberpaths MUST destroy anyone who calls them out completely and fully. Usually by terrorizing them and destroying their credibility and character! Has this been done to you, readers?)
Target #1 - I was finally sure. Everything was a cruel, horrible, twisted LIE. From day ONE! Yidwithlid never had any intent but to toy with me and then paint me to be a pathetic old woman. Even telling Target #2 that I had lost my virginity to him? That was a lie. And he told it to make ME look FIXATED on him.
And this despite his PROTESTING whenever I called him on his 'manipulations." (Beware - anyone who SWEARS he is telling the truth to you? Or needs to say its TRUE - has SOMETHING TO HIDE!) But I still didn't realize he was a player... I thought I was just being tossed aside for something better... and I was ready to just take it.
Yidwithlid shot himself in the foot first. When this Online Predator found out his Targets had talked, like most online players Yidwithlid first spent several days trying to call both women and smooth it out.
Target #1 - Yidwithlid was spinning the facts, times, dates and other things like crazy. He IM'd Target #2 telling her to lay low for a couple weeks.
From Target #2 interviews: "He said to me he'd told his clergyman he'd "Fallen in love with another woman." And that once he could schmooze his wife, he'd be in touch and we'd pick up where we left off. "
This kept Target#2 reeled in because she wasn't sure WHO was telling the truth - Yidwithlid is slick, ain't he?
Target #1: Of course he said NOTHING about me because I never really existed as a real human being anyway. Even Target #2 said "where's the explanation for you?" (Psychological sadist.)
Target#2 said she couldn't get a straight answer out of him.
Once truly exposed Yidwithlid told Target #2 "If you love ME, you will LEAVE me alone." (WTH??)
Target #1: Target #2 said the whole reason she'd finally contacted me was to figure out the Word Salad and cryptic comments!!
Target #2: After repeatedly assuring me he didn't love his wife & hadn't for years now he said "please go away and let my wife heal." Go away? Heal?
I realized he meant stop telling my wife the truth!! so I can tell her more LIES! I was furious and I was going to rip this guy's life wide open for using me like I was a cheap hooker.
(Readers, while telling is one thing - harassment is another. And we do not condone HARASSMENT - EOPC)
Target #1: I felt really stupid, dirty and used. A therapist told me it was emotional rape and put me on sedation. That pretty much summed it up.
When Yidwithlid realized he'd been almost completely exposed, Yidwithlid IM'd Target #1 threatening to tell her ex husband they'd had a physical actual affair and assured Target #1 he was a 'good liar' Yidwithlid also threatened Target #1 with the removal of her kids. She was terrified and still in deep shock.
Yidwithlid stupidly ASSUMED the attacks were from HER! ASSUMED!
(This IM has been verified and is on file with law enforcement - Target #1 has an Order of Protection because of this IM)
~~~~~
Yidwithlid: Let me make this clear. You got me back its done !!! (got me back? is this high school? no this is adults here)
Next there is a call, email letter anthing to me my office or anyone in my family or anyone about me from you or ANYONE I will swear out an order of protection with the police.
And you better believe that the copy of it I send to [your ex-husband] will have some of the prose you sent to [my wife] ..Plus some added tidbits of my own. (Yidwithlid says 'prose' implying that he already painted Target #1 as a liar)
Fedex goes to [your neighborhood]
Target #1: I read that (Yidwithlid had emailed the same paragraph he just typed to her moments before IMing her)
Yidwithlid: nothing on the web either - I will assume its from yo (paranoia on the Cyberpaths' part is classic - there was NOTHING 'on the web' that Target #1 had put or was aware of)
Target #1: [my ex-husband] knows everything
Target #1: you cant hurt me anymore
Target #1: what on the web
Target #1: what are you talking about
Yidwithlid: I am a great embellisher (no s**t)
Target #1: huh? you are sick
Yidwithlid: [your ex-husband] might find that it was physical
Yidwithlid: its over (what's over Yidwithlid? YOUR GAMES???)
Target #1: he already thinks that, so what
Yidwithlid: Ill give him proof
Target #1: so what... you can't do anything to me Yidwithlid
Target #1: that hasn't already been done
Target #1: my therapist knows
Target #1: everyone knows (good - she told him that she hadn't keep his 'secret' - the online predator is exposed!!)
Target #1: I just hope as your friend you get help
Yidwithlid: I will see to it your children are taken away
Yidwithlid: I am on more durgs than I willever understand (he'd supposedly FINALLY gone to a shrink because the truth was coming out faster than he could obfuscate it - probably the psychiatrist medicated him for anxiety.... LOL. Ironic because Target #1, if you remember, was on medication because of him just 4 months into the relationship!)
Yidwithlid: my friend ? lol
Target #1: I pray they work
(Yidwithlid cuts the conversation off here and leaves - remember how Nathan Thomas just LEFT his Victim dangling? And Brad Dorsky accused his Victim of being a 'player' too, then LEFT? Suddenly - the Internet Predator has NO WORDS when BUSTED!)
Target #1 made a decision to turn all information over to his wife. She tells us it was only fair no matter how embarrassing it was to her (Target #1) personally.
(Target #1: "he needed help and I hoped she'd intervene to save him and their marriage. By then I was immaterial anyway.")
Target #2 said she was going to find out where his family was, that Yidwithlid told her about some of his clients and his boss and that anyone she could find was going to find out.
This of course, fueled his anger (he was lying to both everyone and needed a CLEAR FIELD to continue to lie) and Yidwithlid lied even more making Target#1 out to be a stalker and HIMSELF the victim.
TO BE CONTINUED READERS..... this gets 'better'!
Monday, June 11, 2007
Yidwithlid /gridney's Classic Online Seduction Patterns Continued...
Continuing with Yidwithlids STUNNING example of online manipulation -- using R. Greene's THE ART OF SEDUCTION techniques of control & manipulation:
13- Disarm through Strategic Weakness and Vulnerability
Too much maneuvering on your part may raise suspicion. The best way to cover your tracks is to make the other person feel superior and stronger. If you seem to be weak, vulnerable, enthralled by the other person, and unable to control yourself, you will make your actions look more natural, less calculated. To further win trust, exchange honesty for virtue: establish your "sincerity" by confessing some sin on your part-it doesn't have to be real. Sincerity is more important than goodness. Play the victim, then transform your target's sympathy into love.
Yidwithlid was BIG on #13. It got monotonous for us reading how many times he told Target #1 "I can't control myself around you" or just "I can't control." He spent a lot of time talking about how badly other women had treated him, asking Target #1 for advice about dealing with his cold wife who discouraged all his dreams.
As well as advice on dealing with his depression and ADHD. Yidwithlid spent a lot of time being very impressed with her knowledge, her empathy and her altruism. Here's some of the classic comments we got out of his chats with Target #1:
Yidwithlid: You are too good. You really help people
Yidwithlid: You are something special, you know that?
Yidwithlid: Why didn't we know we felt this way 26 years ago? .... saved us both a lot of heartache.
Yidwithlid: I am sorry I don't mean to hurt you. I can't control
Yidwithlid: I don't want to wierd you out
Yidwithlid: You just gave me the chills.
Yidwithlid went on to confess some wild things he'd done when he was younger. Sexually and just everyday. Yidwithlid did this to get Target #1 to talk about her past probably so he'd have something to use against her if he needed. (the abuser's secret weapon: F.O.G. = Fear, Obligation & Guilt)
Yidwithlid talked numerous times of how 2 of his family members abused him. At one point, after he got a new job, he spent time venting to Target #1 how much trouble he was having with someone at his office. He spent a lot of time asking her for input on how to deal with it. He also did the same about members at a community activity he was involved with. Target #1 told him he should "do more things for himself." Yidwithlid was painting himself as a selfless do-gooder; quite far from the truth.
Yidwithlid: They don't like me
Yidwithlid: I have always been a round peg in a square hole
Yidwithlid: I feel so alone sometimes
Yidwithlid: I should never have married [my wife] but something happened (of course he NEVER explained WHAT happened)
Yidwithlid: He's out to get me (about a boss)
Yidwithlid: I try to be a nice person - I don't get why people don't like me
14- Confuse Desire and Reality: The Perfect Illusion
It is important to start slowly, gaining their trust, and gradually constructing the fantasy that matches their desires. Aim at secret wishes that have been thwarted or repressed, stirring up uncontrollable emotions, clouding their powers of reason. The perfect illusion is one that does not depart too much from reality, but has a touch of the unreal to it, like a waking dream.
Yidwithlid: if only things were different
Yidwithlid: "it scares me how I feel about you" (this is an NLP Implanted Thought - i.e. 'I am scared so you should be, too.' It creates CONTROL of the Victim's emotions)
Yidwithlid: I know we were lovers in another life"
Yidwithlid: the cybersex with you isn't without emotion you know
Yidwithlid: I am so confused about you.... or .... I am full of confusion about us (this is another NLP Implanted Thought - i.e. 'I am confused so you should be confused, too.' It further muddles the thinking of the Victim)
Target #1 - I was constantly in a fog with him. Distracted. I couldn't get a straight answer and when I demanded one he blocked me on IM so I stopped asking. I could barely think. I had problems sleeping. I ended up on an anti-depressant just 3 months into our 'relationship'.
I finally confided in a friend about the whole thing - just to get some perspective. I had been badly abused, they said he was was making me feel good about myself and I knew him from before, therefore he was probably trustworthy. They all said the same thing, "no old friend would do this to someone they know." WRONG!
15-Isolate the Victim
Their isolation may be psychological: by filling their field of vision through the pleasurable attention you pay them, you crowd out everything else in their mind. They see and think only of you.
Yidwithlid implored the Target to PLEASE keep the relationship a secret. He would always ASK when her spouse or partner was gone or asleep.
He also asked her best friend not to talk to her about things he'd revealed to her! Separating friends!
Target #1 started taking some spirituality classes and he discouraged her saying it might not be 'good' for her.
(PAY ATTENTION AGAIN HERE READERS:)
On Sept.13, 2002 - my ex sent myself & Yidwithlid an email that said "What do you two plan to do about this?" with a copy of a cybersex chat Yidwithlid and I had had. Yidwithlid disappeared. Zoom!! Told me 'its best if I go away.' This pushed my abandonment button big time.
My estranged husband started to abuse me worse. He would take out chats and read excerpts to my small children. (This was latter used against her ex husband during custody negotiations) He called me Yidwithlid's whore in front of my kids, physically pushed me around. I slept on the floor of my child's room for over 2 years after that and often I got up and could barely walk! It wasn't pretty.
One day at my attorney's later in Sept. 2002 - she handed me a huge packet of everything. Hard copies & disk. Everything my ex'd downloaded telling me my ex-husband still had it. I got the keylogger off but somehow, he was still downloading things here & there. At that time I had no idea how to even save a chat! After this I made it my business to learn more about computer security. I had been entrapped by my ex-husband on the one hand and blamed by Yidwithlid for ruining his fun. I felt like a caged beaten animal. I told Yidwithlid all this and he did nothing but stop giving me even emotional support. Zip... gone. Just like in college!! (No accountability, no 'nice guy' - just 'save his own a**')
When I moved myself & the kids away from my ex-husband I tried to get everything off the computer and did succeed. When things with Yidwithlid exploded in March 2004 I totally disconnected my computer for months afterward. I couldn't go near it - besides I was in the hospital and/or away. I smashed my webcam in my trauma, too.
I gave everything I had to the police; as they asked me to. EVERYTHING. I didn't have the energy to be selective because I was too traumatized. It was all out there, despite how embarrassed I was. The police got more off my computer and I think, Yidwithlids. They verified that nothing was edited or made up. They validated it and its all still on file with them and copies to me. Everything. I bet the cops downtown had a good laugh at my expense too but I deserved it for being so naive.
Key symptoms of a Psychopath/Sociopath:
1. Glib and superficial
2. Egocentric and grandiose
3. Lack of remorse or guilt
4. Lack of empathy
5. Deceitful and manipulative
6. Shallow emotions
Psychopaths can be very effective in presenting themselves well and are often very likable and charming. To some people, however, they seem too slick and smooth, too obviously insincere and superficial. Astute observers often get the impression that psychopaths are play-acting, mechanically, "reading their lines".Sociopaths are very egocentric individuals that lack a sense of personal responsibility and morality. They may be impulsive, manipulative, reckless, quarrelsome, and consistent liars.
The sociopath may be an excellent actor, always appearing charming, calm, and collected. They usually have a normal or above normal intelligence level and good verbal fluency. It is these qualities that sometimes place the sociopath in leadership positions within their social groups and often make it hard to spot their "black side".
from www.findlaci2003.us
Psychopaths can be very sociable, even though they are antisocial behind their "mask" in the sense that their "emotions" are completely fake. They are masters at manipulating others for their personal gain. Their charm, in fact, is legendary.
Psychopaths are experts at using people. They can ask anything of anyone without embarrassment and because of their outgoing seducing friendliness, their use of "poor innocent me! I am such a GOOD person and I have been treated so BADLY!" the victim invariably gets sucked into giving the psychopath what they ask for - no matter how outrageous.
Psychopaths are masters at faking emotions in order to manipulate others. One psychologist reported that if you actually catch them in the act of committing a crime, or telling a lie, "they will immediately justify their actions by self pity and blaming another, by creating a heart-rending scene of faked emotional feelings." These fake emotions are only for effect, as the careful observer will note. The Psychopath considers getting their way or getting out of trouble using faked emotions as a victory over another person.
Psychopaths are incapable of feeling concern or remorse for the consequences of their actions. They can calmly rationalize their insensitive and bizarre behavior all the while attributing malice to everyone but themselves. When caught in a lie, they will manipulate others or stories to their own advantage without any fear of being found out - even if it is obvious to everyone around them that they WILL be found out.
Psychopaths cannot feel fear for themselves, much less empathy for others. Most normal people, when they are about to do something dangerous, illegal, or immoral, feel a rush of worry, nervousness, or fear. Guilt may overwhelm them and prevent them from even committing the deed. The psychopath feels little or nothing.
The psychopath seems to be full of something akin to deep greed. They manifest this inner state in many ways. One of the most common ways is to steal something of value to their victim (valuables), or to hurt/slander the victim or something or someone the victim loves. In the psychopath's mind, this is justified because the victim crossed him, did not give him what he wanted, or rejected him (or her).
Psychopaths lie for the sake of lying. They can convey the deepest heart-felt message without meaning a word of it. They can also tell the most outrageous stories simply in order to be at the center of attention and to get what they want.
The psychopath is obsessed with control even if they give the impression of being helpless. Their pretense to emotional sensitivity is really part of their control function: The higher the level of belief in the psychopath that can be induced in their victim through their dramas, the more "control" the psychopath believes they have. And in fact, this is true. They DO have control when others believe their lies.
Sadly, the degree of belief, the degree of "submission" to this control via false representation, generally produces so much pain when the truth is glimpsed that the victim would prefer to continue in the lie than face the fact that they have been duped. The psychopath counts on this. It is part of their "actuarial calculations." It gives them a feeling of power.
It is all too easy to fall under the spell of the charismatic psychopath. There are many who do the psychopath's bidding without realizing that they have been subtly and cleverly controlled. They can even be manipulated to perform criminal acts, or acts of sabotage against another - innocent - person on behalf of the psychopath. Very often, when this is realized by the victim, that they have caused suffering in innocent people at the behest of a liar, again they prefer to deny this than to face up to the truth of their own perfidy and gullibility.
from "A Natural State of Pschopathy", by Laura Knight-Jadzyk
(As we said, we asked Target #1 for the chats and she sent them to us. EOPC decided what to use and Target #1 also gave us written permission what to use & not use. She also sent a letter to law enforcement that this site may be using these chats with the express direction NO REAL NAMES, LOCATIONS OR INFORMATION BE INCLUDED IN THIS EXPOSE, which we agreed to. These chats were loaded with "word salad" and phrases to create cognitive dissonance by Yidwithlid)
16-Prove YourselfYidwithlid had plausible explanations for everything. Over the course of the chats, Target #1 repeatedly tried to normalize the relationship by asking that they get together and meet each others families. Yidwithlids reasons for not doing it seemed plausible. Either he would promise it would happen eventually - or he would "love bomb" the Target and tell her having her meet his wife would make him crazy - so she felt guilty for even asking.
Never appear discouraged by people's resistance, or complaints. Instead, meet the challenge by doing something extreme or chivalrous. Conversely, spur others to prove themselves by making yourself hard to reach, unattainable, worth fighting over.
Target #1 - the worst was the mixed messages. Yidwithlid was constantly sending pictures of himself with his wife & kids or just of his kids. He wanted to see mine too. I kept saying why don't you just calm down and meet them?
It was painful to see pictures of an old friend and their family and not meet them. None of my old friends that have gotten in touch with me have done this. I know them all and their families. It hurt. Bad.
Finally he was talking about one of his children and I said "I would really like to meet them." I remember his exact response, "That will never happen." I was torn up inside. It was one of the times I didn't chat with him for a number of weeks. I was insulted. He made me feel like I was garbage - of course he apologized profusely later with his "I know I can't control around you" mantra. As if I was the REASON he was doing everything he did. I felt so RESPONSIBLE!
17-Effect a Regression
People who have experienced a certain kind of pleasure in the past will try to repeat or relive it. The deepest-rooted and most pleasurable memories are usually those from earliest childhood, and are often unconsciously associated with a parental figure. Bring your targets back to that point by placing yourself in the oedipal triangle and positioning them as the needy child. Unaware of the cause of their emotional response, they will fall in love with you. Alternatively, you too can regress, letting them play the role of the protecting, nursing parent. In either case you are offering the ultimate fantasy: the chance to have an intimate relationship with mommy or daddy, son or daughter.
Yidwithlid systematically fed Target #1 the sort of verbal and emotional support her abusive ex husband never did. He called her "talented", "beautiful", "unforgettable", "special" and so on. Of course Yidwithlid had fully profiled & lured her and knew where her vulnerabilities were. Yidwithlid knew she had a weak & fragile ego so he fed it to lure her in and bond her to him while he used & abused her.
Don't forget Yidwithlid and the Target #1 went to college together and he just 'happened' to find her on Classmates.com and "just had to write" her. This is what makes this particularly story interesting, because it doesn't happen often that predator & prey KNOW each other previously. (Yidwithlid now swears she was 'stalking him since college' - this is bold-faced LIE. We have proof that 1. Yidwithlid was the ONLY one with a Classmates.com paid account - which is how he got Target #1s email and 2. He wrote her first. He initiated the relationship, the cybersex, everything. HIM, not her.)
This type of exchange below happened, in one form or another, over 20 times in the first 5 months of the online communication between Yidwithlid and the Target:
Target: its just words
Yidwithlid: I don't say things I don't mean
Target: me either
Yidwithlid: I mean how I feel about you
Yidwithlid: I feel connected to you, drawn to you
Target: you could just be toying with me
Yidwithlid: It hurts to have you say that
Yidwithlid: you know me
Target: not recently
Yidwithlid: I would never hurt you never
Yidwithlid: I would do anything to make you happy
Target: I still don't know what to think about you
Yidwithlid: various states of emotion
Yidwithlid: and confusion
Target: who me?
Yidwithlid: no me
Target: you really mean everything you are saying to me?
Yidwithlid: I cant believe you are still asking me that question! (this of course, put Target on the defensive and dumped guilt and more confusion into the mix so she would stop examing what he was doing so closely)
18-Stir up the Transgressive and TabooYidwithlid lured & coerced the Target into cybersex and phone sex numerous times.
There are always social limits on what one can do. Some of these, the most elemental taboos simply defining polite and acceptable behavior. Making your targets feel that you are leading them past either kind of limit is immensely seductive. Not everything in romantic love is supposed to be tender and soft; hint that you have a cruel, even sadistic streak. You do not respect age differences, marriage vows, family ties. Take them farther than they imagined-the shared feeling of guilt and complicity will create a powerful bond.
He also shame-dumped on her by REPEATEDLY telling her that it was HER that was making him feel this way and he had "never done this sort of thing with anyone else before","I swear to God" or it was "so wrong but feels so right"
Yidwithlid: I cant take it anymore
Target: what?
Yidwithlid: we need to get naked together
Target: are you sure about that?
Yidwithlid: why do you keep asking that?
Target: we are married to other people now
Yidwithlid: I need you (notice how Yidwithlid doesn't answer direct statements or questions??)
Target #1 - he would sometimes seem to ZONE out during chats. I would say, 'are you there?' or 'are you O.K.?' and the very next minute he would send me some porn clip from a porn site. Now I know he was either: writting up his latest 'hooker review' or watching porn. He wasn't even paying attention to me anymore - he was in a fugue of sex & depravity!
I tried to make a joke out of it asking him what a nice guy was doing with all that porn. He could click up free porn so fast it was frightening!!
He wasn't even reading what I was typing. It was like he was in a fugue. He just would send the porn and say "lets do this" or "would be interested in doing this."
Sometimes when I IM'd him first to say hi he would say - "can't talk... working" Now I realize that he was there watching and masturbating to porn. He would be watching porn while he was talking to me too. The sheer amount of porn and the speed at which he would send it to me was amazing.
I had a dial up service and he had broadband so I told him I couldn't download the stuff. I would glance at it and delete it as fast as it came in. I felt shamed so I said stuff like "yes, we could do that" so I wouldn't make him mad and he would run away.
When I told him my concerns that our whole online relationship was turning into only sex talk and cybersex he would 'remind' me of all the discussions we had about our children, jobs, people, spirituality, current events.... and I felt guilty. The one line that sticks out in my mind when I asked him what he wanted from more sex in his life he said "I don't want to take, I want to share" (remember that SHARE comment in this post? - During these chats, even FIGHTER lost count of the number of times Yidwithlid said this "SHARE" line!)
Yidwithlid did get very angry when I asked him where he was doing all this. A number of times I said "aren't your kids home?" or "can't your kids or wife hear you?" He got really snippy with me. Now I realize he had no boundaries. Yidwithlid was in the porn zone!
Target: if you are busy we can chat another time
Yidwithlid: no don't go
Target: Sorry your attention seems to be elsewhere
Yidwithlid: Im ADHD remember?
Target: ok
Yidwithlid: You always have my attention
Target: ok
Yidwithlid: I want to show you something
Target: oh?
Yidwithlid: [link]
Yidwithlid: its porn - don't watch it if you're offended
Target: what is with all the porn? LOL
Yidwithlid: I need relief
Yidwithlid: but I want real
AND REMEMBER if the potential cyberpath INSISTS that you delete all chats? or emails? DON'T!!! Copy them to a disk and keep in a safe place. You may need them later and copies can be massaged to give up ISPs, sources codes and so on. Even if you have to lie - DELETE NOTHING once the online friendship turns to "more."
And if they INSIST on you KEEPING THEIf something's for real - they will want to tell everyone and so will you!! Someone with nothing to hide will not beg you to delete things.
RELATIONSHIP A SECRET - don't!! This is a DEAD giveaway
While Yidwithlid did not hide that he was married, nor did Target #1 - Yidwithlid did hide a serious sex addiction that encompassed a lot more than this online affair, as we will find out.
Target #1's only mistake was this relationship - she had nothing else to hide.
19-Use Spiritual Lures
Everyone has doubts and insecurities-about their body, their self-worth, their sexuality. If your seduction appeals exclusively to the physical, you will stir up these doubts and make your targets self-conscious. Instead, lure them out of their insecurities by making them focus on something sublime and spiritual: a religious experience, a lofty work of art, the occult. Lost in a spiritual mist, the target will feel light and uninhibited. Deepen the effect of your seduction by making its sexual culmination seem like the spiritual union of two souls.
Target #1 - Yidwithlid and I spent hours and hours talking about religion and God. I am deeply spiritual and have had some unusual life experiences that I don't share often. Its probably the one thing I truly missed when it all fell apart. Now I see he was sitting at his end laughing at me.
He made me feel very much at ease talking. Yidwithlid would ask me a lot of questions about evil, truth, ethics, my spiritual practices. At first he would say he didn't believe the way I did - but over time he seemed to be more open-minded. Yidwithlid told me he'd gotten much more religious in the last few years and his wife didn't like it - that she was "mad at him for bringing God into their house."
Now I know Yidwithlid was sitting there, taking it all in, continuing to profile me so he could be my perfect mirror. He would talk about how we had a special connection.
In a moment's notice he'd switch from this Spiritual Guy to Mr. HornDog... And silly me, I went right along with it. He kept telling me it was our SPIRITUAL CONNECTION that made him want me so bad. And I just agreed and even found ways to justify it.
Target: I really would have liked more children
Yidwithlid: me too
Yidwithlid: but [my wife] didnt want more
(pause of a few moments)
Yidwithlid: if it was up to me
Yidwithlid: I would have done everything to give you all the children you wanted
At one point Target #1 finally tells Yidwithlid that unless he spents some just-friendly time with her, she was not going to just go to a hotel room and jump into bed with him. In that particular chat she made it clear she wasn't comfortable. What happened? Yidwithlid disappeared from chat for weeks - just BOOM - gone (he'd BLOCKED HER!!)
Typical predator - when he hadn't gotten what he wanted and his Target made a boundary - he withdrew himself and his attentions as a form of 'punishment.'
Yidwithlid: no
Target: I don't understand
Yidwithlid: I still feel the same
Yidwithlid: I know I can't control around you
Yidwithlid: but if we get caught we are dead ducks
Target: caught at what? we haven't done anything!
Yidwithlid: I will have no control around you... I just know it
(once again, dangling the taboo and making the Target feel guilty and responsible for his 'control' problems. Also an Imbedded NLP command to make Target feel out of control also)
20-Mix Pleasure with Pain
The greatest mistake in seduction is being too nice. At first, perhaps, your kindness is charming, but it soon grows monotonous. Instead of overwhelming your targets with niceness, try inflicting some pain. Lure them in with focused attention, then change direction, appearing suddenly uninterested. Make them guilty and insecure. Subjecting them to an emptiness and pain that will give you room to maneuver-now a rapprochement, an apology, a return to your earlier kindness, will turn them weak at the knees. The lower the lows you create, the greater the highs. To heighten the erotic charge, create the excitement of fear.
Yidwithlids frequent lines along the path of #20 here:
"If you want I will go away and not chat with you anymore"
"if this relationship is causing you pain, maybe we should end it"
Yidwithlid played come-to-me-go-away a lot, as we commented before. knowing Target #1 was scared of ending it. She needed the sympathetic ear and Yidwithlid knew it.
When we had lunch he made a crack about my hair being colored. I don't fully color my hair and I told him so. He got annoyed that I called him on this.
Yidwithlid made a comment about most religious groups being male dominated. I told him I knew but in my opinion that was misogyny. He was visibly angry but said nothing.
On the way out of the restaurant where we had lunch I made a point of briefly touching his arm while I was talking. He glared at me for a couple moments like my hand was a red-hot poker.
He also would tell me how badly he 'wanted' me while at the same time PUSHING me to go back to my ex-husband or to "get laid." He tried to give me marital advice. Just after my ex found out about Yidwithlid and I's emotional affair - Yidwithlid told me he felt responsible. He was responsible! But then he said it would be better if we let it cool off for a while and I didn't see him online again for over a month!
(he'd blocked her)
My ex-husband was abusing me very badly, I was seriously depressed and Yidwithlid just ran away. No adult discussion, no friendship, nothing. Of course he made it seem like he was being very chivalrous by going away. I know now I was trauma-bonded to him because of it.
In January 2004 I was supposed to go to the hospital for 10 days for surgery. Yidwithlid had, in the first 18 months we were chatting - been very supportive of my disability and health problems. I mentioned to him in December 2003 I was scheduled for surgery. He didn't ask what for or why. Just said "sorry". Later in that same chat I asked him, since the hospital was close to where he worked - if he would come visit me at least. He didn't even respond. Thank goodness the surgery ended up being cancelled as some things resolved physically on their own. I was so despondent. What had I done wrong?
A handful of times I got suicidal about my situation. Between Yidwithlid and my ex - my brain was spinning and I felt terrible. My disability even got worse. The first couple times I told Yidwithlid I wanted to end everything he was very good about talking to me but one time I said I was feeling the darkness again and his response? "Maybe you are just doing this (saying I was suicidal) because you want my attention." WTF!! I cried for 2 days.
Of course then he'd come back and emotionally & sexually BOMB me again. I was a wreck.
21-Give Them Space to Fall: The Pursuer is Pursued
If your targets become too used to you as the aggressor, they will give less of their own energy, and the tension will slacken. Once they are under your spell, take a step back and they will start to come after you. Begin with a touch of aloofness, an unexpected nonappearance, a hint that you are growing bored. Soon they will want to possess you physically, and restraint will go out the window.
Target #1 - Yidwithlid told me when I would IM him first or be flirtatious with him that he didn't like it. He called me aggressive a couple times, which I really hated, and I told him so. Like a schoolyard bully - he just did it again.
A number of times on a voice program I called him "honey" or "sweetie" and he made me stop immediately. He told me he HATED cute names and it really turned him off. (remember this one readers!)
Yidwithlid refused to tell me his cell number. He asked for my home or cell number but he could never seem to 'remember' it. When we had lunch the one time, I was late. I had to park far from the restaurant and walk. And I don't walk very well. I gave him my cell number that morning but he never even called to see where I was. I showed up 1/2 hr late. Anyone else I would have called them and apologized - but I couldn't with him and he was very annoyed I was late. It was his own fault.
Oddly enough, my ex-husband had given me Yidwithlid's home phone number, address and work phone. He'd found it all when he download the chats between Yidwithlid and I because he was planning on filing charges on Yidwithlid or going to his home and talking to Yidwithlids wife. I had to beg my ex-husband not to do that, which meant I got abused worse. But I put up with it because I felt everything was my fault. But the point is, my ex had given me all of Yidwithlids information but I never once used it in 2 years I had it.
By the time the relationship blew up - Yidwithlid had me practically throwing myself at him. I look back now and think 'who was that! I never do stuff like that!' But I did. I was mortified at my behaviour but now I see it was all part of his manipulation. I was losing control of myself. Yidwithlid was probably sitting back laughing at every moment of it.
He made me forget that HE was the one who started the whole mess and HE was the one who INITIATED my interest. Yidwithlid told me he was only "protecting me from" him! But he wouldn't elaborate. Yidwithlid would only say "I am sick. I need help" or "I wish I was as good as you think I am" or "if you really knew me you wouldn't like me" but he would never be specific. He told me I would lose respect for him if I really knew him. It was just crazy trying to figure it all out.
22-Use Physical Lures
Put their minds gently to rest, and waken their dormant senses, by combining a nondefensive attitude with a charged sexual presence. While your cool, nonchalant air is calming their minds and lowering their inhibitions, your voice-oozing sex and desire-are getting under their skin, agitating their senses and raising their temperature. Never force; instead infect your targets with heat, lure them into lust.
Target - Stupid me, I finally restarted the whole sexual thing - I was so upset by Yidwithlid telling me how lonely he was. I asked him why we didn't cyber anymore. Yidwithlid had no answer for me and repeatedly used the lines"If you want to" or "It's up to you." or "If it will make you feel better." (making Target #1 responsible for the sexual content of their relationship again!!!)
Don't get me wrong - I didn't want to marry him. I didn't want him to leave his wife. In fact I offered to help him find marital counseling, private counseling and I kept telling him I really wanted to meet her. I wanted some honesty & explanation for what was going on - but our relationship seemed to bounce around with his mood and I was scared of upsetting him. I didn't go and "just get laid" either. I am not that sort of person who can just sleep around for fun, or with someone for whom I have no feelings.
Yidwithlid stubbornly refused to acknowledge that I no longer loved my ex and I wasn't going to 'sleep with' someone who was abusing me. It didn't seem to compute with Yidwithlid.(because he was abusing her too!)
Then he started to talk to me about the sexual things he did with old girlfriends - it was hurtful but I was just so stunned I froze every time.
I was horrified and went into a denial that the ONLY reason he looked me up or even spoke to me was for sex. Free sex. Because he'd been unemployed and couldn't afford the pros. So look up that girl who had sex with you in college. And I was paying the price.
FOT 1 said she asked him around this time why he never pursued anything with me in college when he had the chance. His answer "Oh, I just didn't want to handle it." It would have been kinder if he'd just put a knife in me. I couldn't understand why I deserved the cruelty. My therapist told me he was mad at me that my ex-husband caught us!
Just before all the truth came out he came online one time to tell me he & his wife had had relations and he got very specific about everything they did. I blocked him for 3 weeks until he went to FOT1 and BEGGED her to intercede. I wrote him and told him he was out of line. That was his marriage and he had no business telling me that.
I told Yidwithlid that he needed to be a lot clearer about our relationship and what it was he wanted from me. I was really disgusted and wanted to end the relationship but just couldn't do it. His only response was to email me saying "I don't know what to say." He'd programmed me to feel so guilty that eventually I started talking to him again. Now I realize - he told me that just to mentally torture me, see how much I would take and still come back for more!
He kept sending me the articles he wrote. I would clean up his horrible English and spelling and sometimes tell him he needed to punch up certain areas. Of course later, he denied this but I still have his originals and my edits.
23-Master the Art of the Bold Move
Don't give the victim time to consider the consequences; and create conflict, stir up tension, so that the bold move comes as a great release. Showing hesitation or awkwardness means you are thinking of yourself, as opposed to being overwhelmed by the victim's charms. One person must go on the offensive, and it is you.
Let's let Target #1's comments prior to this and our comments speak for themselves on this one, shall we?
24-Beware the Aftereffects
Danger follows in the aftermath of a successful seduction. After emotions have reached a pitch, they often swing in the opposite direction-toward lassitude, distrust, disappointment. . If the game is to go on, a second seduction is required. Never let the other person take you for granted-use absence, create pain and conflict, to keep the seduced on tenterhooks.
We will follow up with the 'after-effects' (severe, permanent PTSD) from Yidwithlid's two years of torturing the Target and the truth coming out next....
Sunday, June 10, 2007
HE'S BACK!! ED HICKS BACK TROLLING ONLINE
Just to remind all of us how COMPULSIVE these predators are, Ed Hicks aka - Charles Hicks, who was indicted for bigamy and got out of jail just a few months back is back online looking for new victims... er partners. (and still lying about his age too - he's actually 63!)
One of his new emails is: kitesurfer06@hotmail.com
More of Hicks' identities:
Kitesurfer00 on Golfmates.com
Sailorboy69 on Singles.net
Windsurfer00 on Mate1.com
Beachman01950 on AdultFriendFinder
IslandHopper00 on True.com
These cyberpaths spend their LIVES doing this and they will never stop. Hicks is a serial bigamist and should be behind bars for a long, long time. He is probably already juggling multiple women for sex, money or just for fun. Hicks will tell you he's retired from the Federal Government (he was fired!), he's just looking for "love" or "companionship" and that all the news stories about him (well-researched with legal backup) are lies planted by his ex-wives or ex-girlfriends. (right... NOT)
This very bad man, just like another bigamist, con man - William Barber - will never stop. Cyberpathy is compulsive and even jail does not deter these men from getting online and doing it all over.
CLICK HERE FOR MORE ON ED HICKS aka CHARLES HICKS
One of his new emails is: kitesurfer06@hotmail.com
More of Hicks' identities:
Kitesurfer00 on Golfmates.com
Sailorboy69 on Singles.net
Windsurfer00 on Mate1.com
Beachman01950 on AdultFriendFinder
IslandHopper00 on True.com
These cyberpaths spend their LIVES doing this and they will never stop. Hicks is a serial bigamist and should be behind bars for a long, long time. He is probably already juggling multiple women for sex, money or just for fun. Hicks will tell you he's retired from the Federal Government (he was fired!), he's just looking for "love" or "companionship" and that all the news stories about him (well-researched with legal backup) are lies planted by his ex-wives or ex-girlfriends. (right... NOT)
This very bad man, just like another bigamist, con man - William Barber - will never stop. Cyberpathy is compulsive and even jail does not deter these men from getting online and doing it all over.
CLICK HERE FOR MORE ON ED HICKS aka CHARLES HICKS
Friday, June 08, 2007
GRIDNEY/ YidwithLid - Follows Seduction (NLP/ Sales) Patterns to the Letter
originally posted in 2005
EOPC's owners spent considerable time going over the 2 years worth of chats "J"/ Yidwithlid had with his Targets. Reprinting the pertinent chats in full would be boring for our readers and Target #1 was very specific about what we could not use.
Unlike our first predator - Ed Hicks (whose chats involved multiple women to whom he told the same thing) these chats below focused on one person that has given us copyright. Our copyright rules are on the left margin of this site. (A second Target comes along later. Whether "J"/Yidwithlid was targetting anyone else during this time we do not know)
What struck us as we were going through these chats is how Yidwith followed the seduction techniques in Robert Greene's THE ART OF SEDUCTION and seduction gurus like David Shade & Ross Jeffries - almost to the letter.
Little did Target #1 or later Target #2 suspect they were being systematically brainwashed!
Target #1 wrote to us about feeling "distracted, not herself, out of sorts" and "hypnotized" in retrospect. She spoke about "buzzing feelings in [her] head" and "wierd often synchronistic bodily sensations" during and after her chats with "J/GRIDNEY." (See post about Online Brainwashing) Was she responsible? She feels she was - but we know that these cyberpaths can skillfully manipulate the best of us!
Therefore - using excerpts from THE ART OF SEDUCTION we are going to use some of "J"s 'lines' and snippets of chat where appropriate - in order to show what was done to the Target. (confirmed chats on various Chat Platforms between April 2002 - February 2004) - Fighter
Target #1 is disabled, estranged from an abusive husband and a 'single parent.' Yidwithlid mentions frequently his other girlfriends - one who had an abusive father, another ex-fiance who was abused and then his wife whose ex-boyfriend was supposedly severely abusive. Basically exposing the fact that he, like most predators, 'hunts the wounded.'
Yidwithlid (aka "J") references the relationship he had with the Target at University (spelling & syntax have been cleaned up - but content is unaltered) and here are some of his 'lines':
"J": You were the most talented person I ever met.
"J": You were a beautiful woman. I am positive you still are. No matter how much weight you have gained
"J": I would do anything to embrace you again
"J": You always supported me and were good to me.
"J": You are too nice
"J": How can [your ex-husband] not love you?
"J": Someone should hold you all night long
"J": I can see you not giving in to a disability
"J": You must have had guys chasing you all over the place
"J": You give me the chills
"J": Now that I have found you again, I will NEVER let you go
"J": I always could talk to you
"J": You make me feel like Stanley Kowalski
"J"/ yidwithlid often spoke to Target #1 about her being - the only woman he could trust or talk to:
"J": Can I ask you something personal? about sex?
Target: I can't possibly have been the only woman besides your wife you were intimate with!
"J": One of the only decent ones
"J": Please
Target: OK shoot
"J"/ Yidwithlid goes on to confess - in great detail - his dismal marital relations. We are leaving the VERY SPECIFIC stuff out here for obvious reasons
"J": Shes....disappointing
"J": I am so frustrated
"J": I don't know what to do about her
"J": She doesn't want to talk about it
"J": I love her but....
"J": I am not sure I love her anymore
"J": She's sooooo .... practical!
"J": I would never go to a hooker...[my wife] would take the kids from me. besides, its immoral and illegal.
"J": Can I talk to you about some personal stuff
Of course the Target (who seems to be an 'altruistic rescuer' - one of the classic targets for cyberpaths) tells him to feel free to open up to her. Creating a sense that he trusts her and ONLY her.
Contradictory statements by "J"/ Yidwithlid we pulled from chats sometimes days or hours apart. Imagine how confused his Target was!:
"J": I can't feel
"J": I am all about feelings
"J": Sex is only good when there's emotion involved
"J": Casual sex is great - just get laid
"J": Women can be very impressive
"J": I look at every woman like they are a hole
"J": I want to be with you so bad
"J": We can never be together 'like that' again
"J": I hope we can get together
"J": I can't see you - I can't control
"J": I don't kiss ass - I am honest
"J": I am a great 'emglissher' [Yiddish for embellisher or liar]
"J": I don't get out much
"J": I will be out/ I have a meeting ..... (used in numerous chats)
"J": You are my friend, my very special friend
"J": I have friends - besides if I spend time with you I will have to make some hard decisions about [my wife]. / I can't control around you
"J": I never believed in spiritual stuff
"J": I am deeply observant and religious
"J": I never liked tall women (Target #1 and his wife are tall)
"J": Your weight and physical problems don't matter to me (when Target #1 was blunt about how her illness had changed her. Numerous times. Including that yidwithlid SAW her when she was on a national morning show in June 2002! )
While "J"/yidwithlid continued to push his 'desire' for the Target - he simultaneously tried to advise her about repairing her marriage and later told her to just "go get laid". Something she would never do. She admitted to us, she foolishly went along with some of it because "J"/ Yidwithlid made her feel terribly guilty if she disagreed with him.
"J": I don't think I love my wife anymore
"J": my wife is so.... practical!
"J": when I asked her to ****** she flipped out
"J": [my ex-fiance] was really jealous when she heard I got married
"J": [my ex-fiance's] husband X is gay. We all went to school together. I know
"J": [my ex-fiance] still writes to me all the time
"J": I wish I could find [my high school girlfriend]
"J": I know my ex-fiance would come back to me if I asked her
The Target introduced "J"/ Yidwithlid to one of her dearest friends online. "J"/ Yidwithlid developed a friendship with this girl (later called FOT1) . "J"/ Yidwithlid would often tell FOT1 NOT to tell Target #1 things. (cyberpaths & abusers love to separate & isolate people) "
"J"/Yidwithlid would act paternally towards this friend of the Target's -- then flirtatious. (A crazymaking technique of pedophiles!)
Additionally "J"/ yidwithlid verbally blame-shifted & made the TARGET RESPONSIBLE for his feelings and his complete lack of sexual impulse control. You will see that this instilled guilt, confusion & obligation in Target #1 - while he played with her mind.
"J"/ Yidwithlid got Target #1 to open up to him about her loneliness since her marriage failed and her struggles as a 'single' parent. "J"/ yidwithlid also made her comfortable and then obtained information about her past sexual history from her. He peppered those chats with:
"J": I want to embrace you. Just thinking about it makes me ***.
"J": If we were together it would be - do to me - do to you
"J": I would do anything to make you happy
"J": When I see you I will [fill in blank with cybersex]
"J": You know that will never happen
"J": Don't give me your address - I can't trust myself with it
"J": I want to **** you so bad
"J": I haven't been with anyone but my wife in years - but you.... you are another story
Need we say how crazymaking and depressing this emotional and psychological game he played was?
Target #1 did attempt to end the online relationship a few times - and succeeded in doing so for almost a month twice. But "J"/ Yidwithlid either appealed to her or FOT1 - and Target #1's forgiving nature gave in.
"J": I have been fantasizing about you all day [insert fantasy here]
"J": I was thinking about you and..... I think I hurt myself
Target: I had a dream about you last nite
"J": tell me
"J": please
"J": Where will we go? a hotel room?
"J": cant do it here or there
"J": Im sorry if I offended you
"J": I didnt mean for it to get this far
"J": I think we should let things cool off (said after the Target's ex-husband discovered the emotional affair, contacted Yidwithlid (who never responded) and started abusing Target #1. This was "J"/ Yidwithlid's cowardly excuse for running away and abandoning his Target with no support)
"J": I am sorry but.....
"J": If I think about you any more I am going to do something stupid
Most of "J"/ Yidwithlid's cybersex scenarios involved enough reality touches and suggestions of hookups that would drive anyone senient person out of their mind. Target #1 also sent us emails "J"/ Yidwithlid sent her. Never anything personal - she was on his mail list (as a BCC) for every sexual, suggestive and dirty email joke he got. Occassionally he would send one to her with a comment like "I wish this was us" or "do you think you could do this" or "we would have fun wouldn't we."
Target - "I often said stuff like 'o.k. get in your car right now and meet me for coffee if you mean that.' We lived about an hour apart. Yidwithlid would get very mad and tell me I was being stupid and careless. Yidwithlid said if we got caught it would be bad for both of us. I told him it was just STUPID that we weren't even having lunch or something after knowing each other all those years. I figured if he saw me he'd cool off - I wouldn't be a fantasy person anymore I'd be real and he'd be more realistic. But he refused. I could kick myself for not using common sense - but for some reason, it was as if I couldn't think straight."
"J"/ Yidwithlid was also, over time, ramping up his requests for the Target to do things, take pictures of a sexual nature, get a webcam, make homemade porn for him, etc. The requests, as with most Online Predators - got more crude & rude as time went on. The Target would refuse and "J"/ Yidwithlid would apologize profusely saying:
"J": I understand if you never want to talk to me again;
or
"J": If you want me to just go away I will
or
"J": I am sick, I need help
or
"J": [online is] the only safe way we can be together
Target #1 - Yidwithlid would slowly, over time, start picking up my phrases or ideas with "that's cute." Within the first 5-6 months of the relationship we seemed to be so in sync it was eerie. I knew about manipulation but not mirroring. It never occurred to me that someone I KNEW would do that to me! It just seemed like we were well matched. Yidwithlid rode the tide with me and continued to convince me he was 'trustworthy.' I had no reason to doubt him at the time.
(see #5 above for references here)
The Target told us: Yidwithlid would disappear from IM for days or weeks. I am sure now he had me blocked. But it was usually after a very intense cybersex session.
His behavior was odd when I first knew him but now it was downright bizarre. He would initiate cybersex and I was having fun, yes - I went along. And then the next day if I brought it up or tried to be tender with him - he would act like it NEVER happened. As if he had NO IDEA what I was referring to. Then a few hours later he'd be wanting cybersex or phone sex with me - again, like the prior conversation never happened.
Once I told him I wasn't going to jump into bed with him without seeing him and spending some face time with him; that I wasn't some whore - he got very snippy with me and disappeared for over a month from IM. I never made that suggestion again because of my fear of abandonment.... and he knew it. (Yidwithlid played on this fear) When questioned he would blame everything on his Adult ADHD. (Yidwithlid: Im ADHD remember??)
Yidwithlid was a master at emotional and psychological torture.
From Target - The cybersex was absolutely mindblowing for a long time. I had never ever done that before ever!
Yidwithlid used our prior relationship to legitimize and sanitize it as the 'only safe way we could be together.' Yidwithlid said all the right things. And I would sometimes do a lot of talking with Yidwithlid just agreeing or going along - or saying nothing so he made it SEEM like he agreed - of course with all the responsibility on me for 'thinking' that way.
He'd built up my trust in him completely.
A friend of this site calls these loaded phrases 'sleeper bombs.' That is - sexual innuendo or promises or phrases that, at first, seem harmless but hours, days or weeks later they pop up in your head while you try to unravel them. See this post for a review of this manipulative technique.
"J": I will see you... when its safe
"J": Maybe we can have lunch next week (this was said many times with no follow up)
"J": Can I call you? I lost your number again
"J": You are special
"J": Please don't stop talking to me
"J": I need you
"J": I don't want to lose you out of my life. You're too important to me
Did we mention "J"/ Yidwithlid is an award winning SALESMAN/ MARKETING PROFESSIONAL?
"J": put on your headphones, I want to sing to you
"J": I sent you an article I knew you would like
"J": Here - I know you will like this (sends picture or article)
"J": this should perk you up (usually said after sending pictures of his penis!)
"J": I was thinking of you today and found this......
"J": The cybersex isn't without emotion for me... it's confusing - I don't know what to do.
"J": You know I have feelings for you.... (lost count of the times this line was used)
MORE TO COME........
yidwithlid
EOPC's owners spent considerable time going over the 2 years worth of chats "J"/ Yidwithlid had with his Targets. Reprinting the pertinent chats in full would be boring for our readers and Target #1 was very specific about what we could not use.
Unlike our first predator - Ed Hicks (whose chats involved multiple women to whom he told the same thing) these chats below focused on one person that has given us copyright. Our copyright rules are on the left margin of this site. (A second Target comes along later. Whether "J"/Yidwithlid was targetting anyone else during this time we do not know)
What struck us as we were going through these chats is how Yidwith followed the seduction techniques in Robert Greene's THE ART OF SEDUCTION and seduction gurus like David Shade & Ross Jeffries - almost to the letter.
Little did Target #1 or later Target #2 suspect they were being systematically brainwashed!
Target #1 wrote to us about feeling "distracted, not herself, out of sorts" and "hypnotized" in retrospect. She spoke about "buzzing feelings in [her] head" and "wierd often synchronistic bodily sensations" during and after her chats with "J/GRIDNEY." (See post about Online Brainwashing) Was she responsible? She feels she was - but we know that these cyberpaths can skillfully manipulate the best of us!
Therefore - using excerpts from THE ART OF SEDUCTION we are going to use some of "J"s 'lines' and snippets of chat where appropriate - in order to show what was done to the Target. (confirmed chats on various Chat Platforms between April 2002 - February 2004) - Fighter
1-Choose the Right Victim
They are often isolated or at least somewhat unhappy (perhaps because of adverse circumstances), or can easily be made so -for the completely contented person is almost impossible to seduce. The perfect victim has some natural quality that attracts you. The strong emotions this quality inspires will help make your seductive maneuvers seem more natural and dynamic. The perfect victim allows for the perfect chase.
Target #1 is disabled, estranged from an abusive husband and a 'single parent.' Yidwithlid mentions frequently his other girlfriends - one who had an abusive father, another ex-fiance who was abused and then his wife whose ex-boyfriend was supposedly severely abusive. Basically exposing the fact that he, like most predators, 'hunts the wounded.'
Yidwithlid (aka "J") references the relationship he had with the Target at University (spelling & syntax have been cleaned up - but content is unaltered) and here are some of his 'lines':
"J": You were the most talented person I ever met.
"J": You were a beautiful woman. I am positive you still are. No matter how much weight you have gained
"J": I would do anything to embrace you again
"J": You always supported me and were good to me.
"J": You are too nice
"J": How can [your ex-husband] not love you?
"J": Someone should hold you all night long
"J": I can see you not giving in to a disability
"J": You must have had guys chasing you all over the place
"J": You give me the chills
"J": Now that I have found you again, I will NEVER let you go
"J": I always could talk to you
"J": You make me feel like Stanley Kowalski
2-Create a False Sense of Security - Approach Indirectly. Lull the target into feeling secure, then strike.
"J"/ yidwithlid often spoke to Target #1 about her being - the only woman he could trust or talk to:
"J": Can I ask you something personal? about sex?
Target: I can't possibly have been the only woman besides your wife you were intimate with!
"J": One of the only decent ones
"J": Please
Target: OK shoot
"J"/ Yidwithlid goes on to confess - in great detail - his dismal marital relations. We are leaving the VERY SPECIFIC stuff out here for obvious reasons
"J": Shes....disappointing
"J": I am so frustrated
"J": I don't know what to do about her
"J": She doesn't want to talk about it
"J": I love her but....
"J": I am not sure I love her anymore
"J": She's sooooo .... practical!
"J": I would never go to a hooker...[my wife] would take the kids from me. besides, its immoral and illegal.
"J": Can I talk to you about some personal stuff
Of course the Target (who seems to be an 'altruistic rescuer' - one of the classic targets for cyberpaths) tells him to feel free to open up to her. Creating a sense that he trusts her and ONLY her.
3-Send Mixed Signals
Send mixed signals: both tough and tender, both spiritual and earthy, both innocent and cunning. A mix of qualities suggests depth, which fascinates even as it confuses. An elusive, enigmatic aura will make people want to know more, drawing them into your circle. Create such a power by hinting at something contradictory within you.
Contradictory statements by "J"/ Yidwithlid we pulled from chats sometimes days or hours apart. Imagine how confused his Target was!:
"J": I can't feel
"J": I am all about feelings
"J": Sex is only good when there's emotion involved
"J": Casual sex is great - just get laid
"J": Women can be very impressive
"J": I look at every woman like they are a hole
"J": I want to be with you so bad
"J": We can never be together 'like that' again
"J": I hope we can get together
"J": I can't see you - I can't control
"J": I don't kiss ass - I am honest
"J": I am a great 'emglissher' [Yiddish for embellisher or liar]
"J": I don't get out much
"J": I will be out/ I have a meeting ..... (used in numerous chats)
"J": You are my friend, my very special friend
"J": I have friends - besides if I spend time with you I will have to make some hard decisions about [my wife]. / I can't control around you
"J": I never believed in spiritual stuff
"J": I am deeply observant and religious
"J": I never liked tall women (Target #1 and his wife are tall)
"J": Your weight and physical problems don't matter to me (when Target #1 was blunt about how her illness had changed her. Numerous times. Including that yidwithlid SAW her when she was on a national morning show in June 2002! )
While "J"/yidwithlid continued to push his 'desire' for the Target - he simultaneously tried to advise her about repairing her marriage and later told her to just "go get laid". Something she would never do. She admitted to us, she foolishly went along with some of it because "J"/ Yidwithlid made her feel terribly guilty if she disagreed with him.
4-Appear to be an Object of Desire - Create Triangles"J" spent over an hour from the pages of chat, in Spring 2003 talking to the Target about his ex-fiance. He went into great detail about her sexual prowess and of course devalued Target #1 at the same time - totally negating any initial positive talk he had fed Target#1 about his "desires" for her and implanting further confusion and trauma bonding.
Manufacture the illusion of popularity by surrounding yourself with members of the opposite sex-friends, former lovers, present suitors. Create triangles that stimulate rivalry and raise your value. Build a reputation that precedes you: if many have succumbed to your charms, there must be a reason.
"J": I don't think I love my wife anymore
"J": my wife is so.... practical!
"J": when I asked her to ****** she flipped out
"J": [my ex-fiance] was really jealous when she heard I got married
"J": [my ex-fiance's] husband X is gay. We all went to school together. I know
"J": [my ex-fiance] still writes to me all the time
"J": I wish I could find [my high school girlfriend]
"J": I know my ex-fiance would come back to me if I asked her
"J"/ Yidwithlid used the phrase "I talked to/or/ spent time with my friend so-and-so" frequently while simultaneously REFUSING to see the Target because he couldn't control himself around her. "J"/ Yidwithlid also frequently expounded about activities he was involved with, events he went to with his wife or friends and golf excursions. "J"/ Yidwithlid probably purposely did this to create frustration for the Target's desire to just get together (non-sexually) as well as using it like a 'carrot on a stick.' (note: Dorsky and Beckstead did the same with their Targets.)
The Target introduced "J"/ Yidwithlid to one of her dearest friends online. "J"/ Yidwithlid developed a friendship with this girl (later called FOT1) . "J"/ Yidwithlid would often tell FOT1 NOT to tell Target #1 things. (cyberpaths & abusers love to separate & isolate people) "
"J"/Yidwithlid would act paternally towards this friend of the Target's -- then flirtatious. (A crazymaking technique of pedophiles!)
5-Create a Need: Stir Anxiety and Discontent
Pain and anxiety are the proper precursors to pleasure. Learn to manufacture the need that you can fill.
"J"/ yidwithlid spent a lot of time trying to see why the Target gave up her former career and moaning about the career path he had taken. Both had wanted to be actors. Target did have a small career doing voice-overs and television commercials before her marriage and disability stopped that. "J"/ Yidwithlid said he didn't have the drive to continue and blamed it on his having Adult ADHD.
Additionally "J"/ yidwithlid verbally blame-shifted & made the TARGET RESPONSIBLE for his feelings and his complete lack of sexual impulse control. You will see that this instilled guilt, confusion & obligation in Target #1 - while he played with her mind.
"J"/ Yidwithlid got Target #1 to open up to him about her loneliness since her marriage failed and her struggles as a 'single' parent. "J"/ yidwithlid also made her comfortable and then obtained information about her past sexual history from her. He peppered those chats with:
"J": I want to embrace you. Just thinking about it makes me ***.
"J": If we were together it would be - do to me - do to you
"J": I would do anything to make you happy
"J": When I see you I will [fill in blank with cybersex]
"J": You know that will never happen
"J": Don't give me your address - I can't trust myself with it
"J": I want to **** you so bad
"J": I haven't been with anyone but my wife in years - but you.... you are another story
Need we say how crazymaking and depressing this emotional and psychological game he played was?
Target #1 did attempt to end the online relationship a few times - and succeeded in doing so for almost a month twice. But "J"/ Yidwithlid either appealed to her or FOT1 - and Target #1's forgiving nature gave in.
6-Master the Art of Insinuation
There is no known defense, however, against insinuation-the art of planting ideas in people's minds by dropping elusive hints that take root days later, even appearing to them as their own idea. Insinuation is the supreme means of influencing people. Create a sublanguage-bold statements followed by retraction and apology, ambiguous comments, banal talk combined with alluring glances-that enters the target's unconscious to convey your real meaning. Make everything suggestive.
"J": last nite I dreamt that you and I [cybersex here]
"J": I have been fantasizing about you all day [insert fantasy here]
"J": I was thinking about you and..... I think I hurt myself
Target: I had a dream about you last nite
"J": tell me
"J": please
"J": Where will we go? a hotel room?
"J": cant do it here or there
"J": Im sorry if I offended you
"J": I didnt mean for it to get this far
"J": I think we should let things cool off (said after the Target's ex-husband discovered the emotional affair, contacted Yidwithlid (who never responded) and started abusing Target #1. This was "J"/ Yidwithlid's cowardly excuse for running away and abandoning his Target with no support)
"J": I am sorry but.....
"J": If I think about you any more I am going to do something stupid
Most of "J"/ Yidwithlid's cybersex scenarios involved enough reality touches and suggestions of hookups that would drive anyone senient person out of their mind. Target #1 also sent us emails "J"/ Yidwithlid sent her. Never anything personal - she was on his mail list (as a BCC) for every sexual, suggestive and dirty email joke he got. Occassionally he would send one to her with a comment like "I wish this was us" or "do you think you could do this" or "we would have fun wouldn't we."
Target - "I often said stuff like 'o.k. get in your car right now and meet me for coffee if you mean that.' We lived about an hour apart. Yidwithlid would get very mad and tell me I was being stupid and careless. Yidwithlid said if we got caught it would be bad for both of us. I told him it was just STUPID that we weren't even having lunch or something after knowing each other all those years. I figured if he saw me he'd cool off - I wouldn't be a fantasy person anymore I'd be real and he'd be more realistic. But he refused. I could kick myself for not using common sense - but for some reason, it was as if I couldn't think straight."
"J"/ Yidwithlid was also, over time, ramping up his requests for the Target to do things, take pictures of a sexual nature, get a webcam, make homemade porn for him, etc. The requests, as with most Online Predators - got more crude & rude as time went on. The Target would refuse and "J"/ Yidwithlid would apologize profusely saying:
"J": I understand if you never want to talk to me again;
or
"J": If you want me to just go away I will
or
"J": I am sick, I need help
or
"J": [online is] the only safe way we can be together
7-Enter Their Spirit
Play by their rules, enjoy what they enjoy, adapt yourself to their moods. In doing so you will stroke their deep-rooted narcissism and lower their defenses. Hypnotized by the mirror image you present, they will open up, becoming vulnerable to your subtle influence.
Target #1 - Yidwithlid would slowly, over time, start picking up my phrases or ideas with "that's cute." Within the first 5-6 months of the relationship we seemed to be so in sync it was eerie. I knew about manipulation but not mirroring. It never occurred to me that someone I KNEW would do that to me! It just seemed like we were well matched. Yidwithlid rode the tide with me and continued to convince me he was 'trustworthy.' I had no reason to doubt him at the time.
8-Create Temptation
Lure the target deep into your seduction by creating the proper temptation: a glimpse of the pleasures to come. . Dangle the prize before their eyes, postponing satisfaction, and let their minds do the rest. The future seems ripe with possibility. Stimulate a curiosity stronger than the doubts and anxieties that go with it, and they will follow you.
(see #5 above for references here)
9-Keep Them in Suspense: What Comes Next
The only way to lead the seduced along and keep the upper hand is to create suspense, a calculated surprise. People love a mystery, and this is the key to luring them farther into your web. Behave in a way that leaves them wondering. Give the victim a thrill with a sudden change of direction.
The Target told us: Yidwithlid would disappear from IM for days or weeks. I am sure now he had me blocked. But it was usually after a very intense cybersex session.
His behavior was odd when I first knew him but now it was downright bizarre. He would initiate cybersex and I was having fun, yes - I went along. And then the next day if I brought it up or tried to be tender with him - he would act like it NEVER happened. As if he had NO IDEA what I was referring to. Then a few hours later he'd be wanting cybersex or phone sex with me - again, like the prior conversation never happened.
Once I told him I wasn't going to jump into bed with him without seeing him and spending some face time with him; that I wasn't some whore - he got very snippy with me and disappeared for over a month from IM. I never made that suggestion again because of my fear of abandonment.... and he knew it. (Yidwithlid played on this fear) When questioned he would blame everything on his Adult ADHD. (Yidwithlid: Im ADHD remember??)
Yidwithlid was a master at emotional and psychological torture.
10-Use the Demonic Power of Words to Sow Confusion
The trick to making them listen is to say what they want to hear, to fill their ears with whatever is pleasant to them. Inflame people's emotions with loaded phrases, flatter them, comfort their insecurities, envelop them in fantasies, sweet words, and promises, and not only will they listen to you, they will lose their will to resist you.
Keep your language vague, letting them read into it what they want.
From Target - The cybersex was absolutely mindblowing for a long time. I had never ever done that before ever!
Yidwithlid used our prior relationship to legitimize and sanitize it as the 'only safe way we could be together.' Yidwithlid said all the right things. And I would sometimes do a lot of talking with Yidwithlid just agreeing or going along - or saying nothing so he made it SEEM like he agreed - of course with all the responsibility on me for 'thinking' that way.
He'd built up my trust in him completely.
A friend of this site calls these loaded phrases 'sleeper bombs.' That is - sexual innuendo or promises or phrases that, at first, seem harmless but hours, days or weeks later they pop up in your head while you try to unravel them. See this post for a review of this manipulative technique.
"J": I will see you... when its safe
"J": Maybe we can have lunch next week (this was said many times with no follow up)
"J": Can I call you? I lost your number again
"J": You are special
"J": Please don't stop talking to me
"J": I need you
"J": I don't want to lose you out of my life. You're too important to me
Did we mention "J"/ Yidwithlid is an award winning SALESMAN/ MARKETING PROFESSIONAL?
11-Pay Attention to Detail
The details of a seduction-the subtle gestures, the offhand things you do-are often more charming and revealing. gestures that show the time and attention you are paying them. All of their senses are engaged in
the details you orchestrate.
"J": put on your headphones, I want to sing to you
"J": I sent you an article I knew you would like
"J": Here - I know you will like this (sends picture or article)
"J": this should perk you up (usually said after sending pictures of his penis!)
"J": I was thinking of you today and found this......
"J": The cybersex isn't without emotion for me... it's confusing - I don't know what to do.
"J": You know I have feelings for you.... (lost count of the times this line was used)
12-Poeticize Your Presence(please see reference to #9 above)
Remain elusive, then, so that when you are away, they will yearn to see you again, and will only associate you with pleasant thoughts.
MORE TO COME........
yidwithlid
Wednesday, June 06, 2007
Sammy Benoit / YIDWITHLID - MOVES TO THE NEXT LEVEL
(this is our 3rd repost - first posted in Jan/Feb. 2005)
Yidwithlid / GRIDNEY's Target #1 tells the beginning of her story. We have added some portions from the numerous chats we received to emphasize what was going on and to further illustrate Yidwithlid's manipulative pattern. (remember: we do NOT SUBSTANTIVELY EDIT THE CHATS WE USE. We may delete for brevity, personal information or possibly sexually charged items. BUT WE DO NOT EDIT as it would be fraud to reproduce chats online that never occurred! Also, in this case - forensics had verified everything.)
Target #1 was extremely specific about what we could and couldn't use - including Yidwithlids real name, location or anything about his partner or family) Please take another look at the post on ONLINE SEDUCING this week. This predator is a prime example of that pickupguide.com, NLP seduction in action.
Again our comments are in dark blue.
________________________________
Target #1: I had known Yidwithlid for years. It never occured to me that someone would use my friendship to gain my trust and then BRAINWASH me. That's what my counselors told me over & over again - brainwash. I didn't believe it myself until after this was all over and therapists helped me dissect what had been done. Sometimes I still don't believe it.
Yidwithlid was unemployed at the time he contacted me (formerly a publisher of a national magazine) so had the time to IM me every day. I was surprised he remembered me.
"Target": Were you LOOKING for me on Classmates.com?
Yidwithlid: No
Yidwithlid: To be honest I was loking for someone else and saw your name.
Yidwithlid: So I paid and got your email (Yid currently alleges Target #1 has been 'stalking him for years' - here it is in his own words - THAT'S A LIE - HE FOUND HER!)
Yidwithlid: I never ever forgot you (sure he did! he forgot until he was bored and needed a free sexual target!)
"Target":Well, you had 27 years to contact me and didn't.
Yidwithlid: Life happens
Yidwithlid: I thoght [mutual friend] made you think I was a ***hole. (puts Target on the defensive)
"Target":no. but oddly enough, I thought he made you think I was a jerk too.
Yidwithlid: yeah? (notice he never really answers the above comment)
"Target": but you never got in touch with me.
Yidwithlid: you either with me
"Target": a lady doesnt' look up a man, even as friends
Yidwithlid: water under the bridge. I was young tryng to b macho
Yidwithlid: pulled back about my feelings and scared then
Yidwithlid: whenever I felt I was losing, I cold hear your vioce in my head.
Yidwithlid: you were always encoraging me
"Target": I am that way with everyone
Yidwithlid: I was a fool - you were wondrful
"Target": no I wasn't
We caught up, talked about our lives. Jobs, etc. He sent me loads of pictures of himself, his wife and his kids; which I now realize was sheer torture because eventually he refused to introduce me to them and make this normal - so if you don't want to be my real friend, why send all those pictures of his kids, family events? (purposely mixed messages to keep her off balance! additionally, he was getting off on withholding real friendship - which is what she wanted - thereby putting her in a corner where there was only ONE THING she could do with/ for him that he would accept. Complete mind- f**k)
I sent pics of my family but none of me. I had gained a lot of weight in the years since my kids were born - because of a serious health problems and medication. I never ever lied to Yidwithlid about my weight or my health though. Yidwithlid asked a lot about my health, what I was taking, my surgeries and so on. Just before he had emailed me I had been gravely ill with pneumonia. My marriage was over and I had been sleeping on the couch for years but trapped because I was so ill and broke. M ex-husband refused to do anything to end the marriage. I felt like an indentured servant. But I was NOT looking for a new man. I really didn't want any sort of relationship anymore.
Finally I sent Yidwithlid some pictures of myself and he said that basically I "looked the same" and he wasn't "one to judge" people by their looks. He told me that he "knew me better than that" and that my weight wasn't "what made [me] beautiful" to him. I laughed all this flattery off because I know what I look like. But he kept it up, and poured it on even more when he learned I was in the process of divorcing my husband. Little did I suspect I was being sized up and profiled!
Yidwithlid quickly initiated an emotional affair using our prior friendship as a springboard to gain my trust. He was extremely sympathetic about other abusive relationships I had been trapped in and my new internet “love” couldn’t have been nicer. He made himself my emotional lifeline.
Yidwithlid: Whatever happened betwen u & [mutual friend]
"Target #1": oh gosh
"Target #1": well he passed away a couple years ago
"Target #1": I cut the relationship off senior year of college
Yidwithlid: sorry to hear
"Target #1": don't be
Yidwithlid: I had no idea he died
"Target #1": yeah... it was sudden. He had undiagnosed cancer, caught up with him
Yidwithlid: oy
"Target #1": I couldn't go to the service tho
"Target #1": kids were small
"Target #1": and it felt hypocritical to go
Yidwithlid: what happened between you 2
Yidwithlid: were you sleeping with him?
"Target #1": beside the fact he was beating me up
"Target #1": and emotionally abusive to me
"Target #1": and scaring me
Yidwithlid: wow
Yidwithlid: he's the reason I left the colleg
"Target #1": I know
Yidwithlid: I was convinced he wanted me dead
"Target" #1: well he got close with me
"Target #1": broke my jaw - threw me into your old closet
Yidwithlid: oh my
"Target #1": yeah he was careful tho
"Target #1": and I stupidly coverd it all up - I was embarrassed
Yidwithlid: If I had been there I would have gone to the cops
"Target #1": right
"Target #1": back then no one did that Yidwithlid
"Target #1": besides you ran away
Yidwithlid: not fair (again puts her on the defensive)
"Target #1": sorry
Yidwithlid: I would never let anyone treat u like thta (though he's about to treat her like complete garbage and use her for just sex. But he paints himself as a "good guy" like they all do)
Yidwithlid: you wre somethng special ...still are
"Target #1": no Im not
Yidwithlid: someone should hold you all night
When Yidwithlid talked about the first time we were intimate I was shocked at the details he remembered Really minute details that guys usually don't. Then he told me I was his first; that he'd lost his virginity to me. I didn't believe it!! I brought it up NUMEROUS times after that and told him I still didn't believe it. He got very angry at me in subsequent questionings so I would stop asking. (Training/ grooming her not to question him!)
When his memories were skewed or completely in opposition to what I remembered I told him and he became very snippy and nasty. Sometimes he'd just withdraw. So I stopped arguing with him. I didn't want to lose my "someone to talk to." He had a lot of it very wrong but it seemed pointless to argue with him. I was abused as a child and arguing really triggers me. I was totally stunned by Yidwithlid in the first few months. He knocked me for a loop. He started talking about his feelings for me. I was shocked. But he continued on that he felt safe with me and wanted me back in his life. I thought fine, would be great to be friends. But he wanted more. He made it quite clear he had deep emotions for and "feelings" for me. He said it many times in many different ways as well as right out. The more he said it, the more I believed it and felt the same way. The more I let the old feelings I'd had for him surface.
About 4 weeks in we chatted until late one night and he plead his case for us to be "together" and how he couldn't control his desires for me much longer. I spent all weekend thinking about it and then, stupid me, I said "O.K." to a least the cybersex. He begged like a lost puppy who just wanted someone to love & care about him. I knew what it was like to be trapped with an abuser; and he portrayed his wife as a cold, pious woman who'd lost all interest in him - how their marriage was just going through the motions.
As soon as I got comfortable with this, the love bombing began. He told me "we must have been together in a past life"... how we "had SO much in common"... that he was "sorry he didn't contact me sooner." I thought so too given the criteria he presented me. I had no clue then he was just eliciting values from me & mirroring me so it only 'seemed' that way.
He was online sometimes 2-3 times a day; saying he was looking for me. And often LATE into the night. He was quite blunt about his marriage being "unfulfilling." I would talk to him about having dialogue with his wife and how she worked and took care of his kids and she was probably tired. I told him this numerous times over the 2 years. He painted her as cold, distant and uncaring.
I was still teetering about any real sexual relationship - it felt wrong but my strength to resist was getting worn down by him. Yidwithlid cautiously asked me about sex at first. Yidwithlid made his wife sound very uptight. I asked him if she'd been abused or he was making her uncomfortable and was it always like that. Yidwithlid had a plausible answer for everything. Slowly but surely he was painting himself as an object to be pitied for putting up with this supposed 'ice princess' he was married to. But, I really did want to meet her. After seeing her picture I couldn't believe she was as Yidwithlid said she was. When I told him that he got VERY snarky so I stopped arguing about that too.
Then it happened (we have been asked not to publish this particular chat)-- one day about 11am, 4 weeks after Yidwithlid contacted me, we were chatting. I had a project going as editor & publisher of my children's preschool yearbook. I could do it at home on my own time but it was a big project. Chatting with him was a nice break. I happened to mention that my shoulders were tight from using a certain publishing software because it was so labor intensive. I will never forget it because I had NEVER EVER had cybersex and thought online dating was scary. In fact I just wanted no relationship at all anymore.
Yidwithlid started with "Imagine I am behind you rubbing your shoulders" I replied "aww, thanks." Then he started with "I rub down further..." I should have stopped and clicked off. Honestly I was so shocked I just sat there and watched as the words came up on the screen. I had the typical abused woman's "freeze reaction". Someone was crossing my boundary and I felt powerless.
I had NEVER had cybersex before ever. I made fun of people who did as being pathetic. I had NEVER done an online relationship as I thought it was dumb - besides legally I was still married. I am not a prude but this was just crazy, though with the 'disease to please' so many women have - I didn't want to say anything to Yidwithlid I still don't understand why I did it. (We know why - So does Sandra Brown, MA - it's the predator's mind control. Don't let ANYONE (especially The Cyberpath! tell you, you KNEW WHAT YOU WERE DOING! Or did so of 'your free will.' You didn't. They lured, seduced and manipulated you.)
I just let him talk and yes, I participated. Yidwithlid did most of the typing. Yes, I went along. God forgive me, I don't really remember WHAT I was thinking or if I was thinking at all! In all honesty it always felt like I was in a fog or a trance. Afterward I said I had to go. I got up and went for a walk in the cold Spring air. I walked around the block and everything felt very unreal/ My brain and body were 'buzzing.' I came back, sat down and opened my online private journal and tried to wriie down how I was feeling. I didn't know what to think.
In fact for the next 2 years I was so distracted, in a fog and mentally messed up I could barely function. This was helped along by Yidwithlid's obtuseness and infectiously addictive patterns. Later that day he apologized and said he wouldn't do it again. He said that I was "tempting" him because of his "feelings" for me. I told him:
"Target": you don't understand, I don't do things like that
Yidwithlid: me either
"Target": no I have never ever had cybersex
Yidwithlid: me either
"Target": you sounded like you knew what you were doing
Yidwithlid: I have an active imagnition (lie, he'd done it with online cyberbabes & phone sex operators many times as you will all find out)
Yidwithlid: sorry I am sooooo frustrated
Yidwithlid: if it bothers you I wont do it again
"Target": not sure how I feel about it
Yidwithlid: it wasnt without emotion you know
"Target": yeah me either
Yidwithlid: I wish it could be real
"Target": I am not sure you'd really want that
Yidwithlid: I am
"Target": I wish I could give you what you need but
Yidwithlid: I dont waqt to take, i want to SHARE
(remember that Online Seduction post? David Shade used the word SHARE on his targets a lot too!! Its an imbedded NLP - seduction trigger! - Fighter)
After that it happened again a couple days later. By now I was thinking it was safe. At least this was someone I knew, and I had been with him sexually years ago so I could trust him, right?
One Friday night he got online with me and I brought up that I was having conflicting feelings about it all. Even though my marriage was over and I was not with my ex-husband anymore - it still wasn't right. Yidwithlid agreed but then talked about how he "only wanted to make [me] feel good and happy" and again how it wasn't "without emotion" and he didn't "want to ruin" his marriage because his wife would "take the kids" from him. He repeatedly told me he had never ever done this before and it was something about ME and he was emotionally confused. (Of course that made the Target feel emotionally confused because he imbedded that thought! - Fighter)
I felt a lot of guilt mixed with excitement. (just what Yidwithlid wanted, as per ART OF SEDUCTION)
During that Friday night conversation he sent me a picture of himself naked in his office. NAKED. I asked him WHY he was in his home office naked with his kids down the hall? He said he was locked in. He liked to be naked to sleep and he was merely checking the job hunting sites before bed. He told me a few times over the next few days he "couldn't believe" he sent me a "naked picture of himself" and to "PLEASE DELETE!" I did. I was so embarrassed and stunned that he did that I didn't know what to say. Then he asked me how his **** looked! I just said "fine." I really didn't know what to say or do at that point. (Notice how he covertly & consistently made the Target feel it was her 'fault' for his boundary-less, perverted behavior? Pathological persons always do this - Fighter)
I wasn't aware that my ex-husband, in his need to control me, had been stealthily logging every email, IM, support board or word document I worked on for at least 11 months before Yidwithlid looked me up. My ex husband soon had every email, every divorce site I'd visited, all the work on my kids' yearbook, the disability advocacy boards I was on... you name it. It was all set up to be downloaded remotely to his computer at work where he would read it at his leisure. I am still not very technically astute - I had NO IDEA. (make a note of this one readers!)
The previous night where Yidwithlid had told me he still "cared" for me and wanted to have an affair - chat -- I still couldn't believe it. I was a mess.
We had some cybersex for the next 8-10 weeks or so along with chatting. He told me I made him "feel like Stanley Kowalski" (from STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE) and he couldn't believe how just seeing me online "turned [him] on" and how he was "struggling with his old feelings for" me. The big one he said over & over was how he couldn't control himself with me ("CONTROL" - another imbedded NLP command designed to put him IN CONTROL and per her OUT OF CONTROL!) For someone as starved for any positive attention, now I was being drowned in it by someone I knew and felt very comfortable with. I see now, it was a purposeful, emotional jackhammer to my brain & my common sense.
I apologized over and over. (He'd made Target feel guilty! ) Yidwithlid started to make me sound like some sort of cyber-temptress who had pushed him over the edge. Sounds stupid in retrospect. And definitely wrong! Mostly I would talk about our kids, the weather, family - anything else. I kept requesting to meet his wife & kids hoping it would cool him off. Many times there were huge time gaps in the chats before he'd answer me. Or I would see on IM that he was 'typing' but nothing came up on my screen. He told me he was writing an article or a letter or resume. (We bet he was pacing the chat, establishing a rhythm which helps embed the triggers. And surfing for other chicks, contacting Target #1s friends using HER GOOD WORDS to seduce them and doing online porno!)
Finally I told him to slow down, I wanted lunch or coffee with him, a face to face, in order to catch up. “You’re moving too fast,” I told him. One evening we had a very intense conversation. Yidwithlid told me he wanted to rent a hotel room for a day for us to be together for "real" and that he couldn't take it anymore.
Yidwithlid: thougt about you today
"Target": oh!
Yidwithlid:I imagine you in your robe with ****************
"Target": (blushing)
Yidwithlid: I want to touch you
Yidwithlid: feel you all over
Yidwithlid: I want you to make me remember
"Target": this is insane
Yidwithlid:I know
Yidwithlid:i soooo want to share with u
"Target": No. I just don't do this sort of thing
Yidwithlid:me either
Yidwithlid: back in college I didn't get naked with just anyone
"Target": neither did I
Yidwithlid: I still trust you
Yidwithlid: I have to ***** a couple times a day just thinkng abot u
"Target": I think your having some memory lapses
"Target": what about your wife, this isnt right (watch as Yidwithlid totally evades this one)
Yidwithlid: wish i'd known we flet this way 26 years ago
"Target": omg
Yidwithlid: dont u feel that way too
"Target": yes i guess
Yidwithlid: something deeper than either of us have ever known
Yidwithlid: maybe being with you - can belp uis both cope
"Target": honestly, I would ...
Yidwithlid: really
"Target": yes
Yidwithlid: yes?
Yidwithlid: but?
"Target": but.... im still married legally and so are you
"Target": this is too odd
"Target": I want to give you my address and phone and meet your family
Yidwithlid: no dont
Yidwithlid: I will do somethng stupid if u do
"Target": and you meet mine
Yidwithlid: dunno
Yidwithlid: dunno if I could handle
Yidwithlid: please let me touch you
Yidwithlid: feel you
Yidwithlid: I want you so bad... you..
[Yidwithlid starts cybersex here]
Yidwithlid began pushing to meet me at a hotel right away but I told him no. Then Yidwithlid started with "let's do it just one time so we don't get caught." Once I said no and I couldn't do it - then he steadfastly refused to see me at all! I realize now even when he wrote me he had NO INTENTION of seeing me or being a real friend. Then I got so upset over angering Yidwithlid I recanted and said ok - and even pushed him to do it! My therapist tells me I was set up.
When I said NO the first time, he DISAPPEARED OFFLINE for 5 weeks. I was nuts - I thought he'd been in an accident. I was half out of my mind with worry. It was about then I told my best friend. I HAD to tell someone. When I saw him again online I asked him:
"Target": "where have you been?
Yidwithlid: around
"Target": I was worried
Yidwithlid :dont be
Yidwithlid: with kids, playing golf
Yidwithlid: I am fine
Later in the same chat he says:
Yidwithlid: I have decided
Yidwithlid: we can't be together for real
Yidwithlid: it would be wrong
Yidwithlid: i woud have tomake decisions about [my wife]
Yidwithlid: it would hurt both of us (wait... HE decided? didn't she just say NO in a prior chat? Wow - talk about CONTROL)
"Target": do you even still have feelings
Yidwithlid: YES
Yidwithlid: but maybe we are jut two lonely people looking to connect
"Target": so you don't feel the same way, you've changed your mind?
Yidwithlid: but I don't do thinghs like that (He doesn't even ANSWER her)
"Target": I am confused
Yidwithlid: you had the prettiest ******* ever (He just changes direction and by now he's got her used to it!)
Yidwithlid: they were always my favrite
"Target": but things have changed - I have had a lot of surgery - lots of weight from medication. This isn't right.
Yidwithlid: I bet they haven't
"Target": they have
Yidwithlid: I bet you are wrong
........
Yidwithlid then disappeared for another week. When he came back he started up the cybersex again saying it was "the only safe way [we] can be together." He found work shortly thereafter. I kept asking him if we could have lunch, say hi - anything to make this something more normal. I just wanted the chaos & confusion to stop without lecturing him. And even though I was 10 minutes from his office he kept telling me he “couldn’t control himself” around me. It was one excuse after another. I was scared I would lose the person I thought was my friend if I didn't go along with him. And I was too weak to stand up and just say "no." (Yidwithlid used the words SHARE and CAN'T CONTROL repeatedly in these chats - part of the mental programming & mind control)
The "no lunch” but" meet me in a hotel,” had confused me, especially since he had convinced me we were “falling for each other”. (In a number of chats he told his target something to the effect of: 'You KNOW me, I wouldn't toy with you or hurt you.')
I left for a 6 week vacation with my kids then. In retrospect it was odd that he didn't seem to care I was going away. Yidwithlid and I chatted a couple times while I was there but he never said he missed me. Why would he? Nothing had changed for him - still online friend only! We had more chats where I urged him to work on his marriage and he now started pushing me to give my husband another chance. Yidwithlid didn't seem to grasp that I was leaving a serious abuser. In fact, he seemed relieved I was out of town. More putting me in cyber-reality only. Yidwithlid kept giving me advice as if my divorce was based on minor disagreements. (because cyberpaths are petty)
Yes, I vented to him. Almost like he wanted to offload my emotions for him back onto my ex-husband. I realize now he was looking to validate his LACK of empathy and at the same time INVALIDATE my feelings about my marriage being over. (and Target #1 REPEATEDLY asked him to TALK TO HIS WIFE & possibly get marriage counseling. REPEATEDLY she defended his wife, whom he smears her to later)
When I came back Yidwithlid used a lot of “confusing talk” with me and then played dumb. He would twist things, making it seem like I was acting overbearing and aggressive when he had initiated and encouraged my interest. (Readers, just to say again, the chat transcripts verify all the assertions here - EOPC)
Here's a couple things he did that were very odd, now that I think about it:
As I said before estranged husband hacked files off my computer regarding this emotional affair. My ex had everything. Copies were with his attorney and the attorney I saw gave me copies too. Everyone had seen it all. Even Yidwithlid's address, phone numbers and work addresses!
The verbal abuse from my ex escalated towards me and the children. My ex had everything I was doing. Even this. I was pushed around and called names in front of my children. I felt I deserved it because I felt guilty. My estranged husband was determined to go to Yidwithlid's house and talk to his wife. My ex even said he went to his office a couple times but just stood in the lobby and thought better of it. I begged him not to and my ex used my promises against me for months after. Because of my feelings for Yidwithlid, I defended him - as I would for anyone I felt genuinely close to. (Readers, do you think Yidwithlid APPRECIATED ANY OF THIS?)
Sharing my predicament with Yidwithlid, his 'supportive' response was to distance himself for weeks. (Nice NOT!) When he contacted me again, it was as if the emotional stuff & cybersex between us NEVER happened. What the heck? I went back to therapy and got on antidepressants because my head felt literally foggy, like there was a fuzzy blanket over my brain.(covert brainwashing symptom!)
Simply it had all become too much for me. Yidwithlid was very upset to hear my ex-husband I weren't back together and told me to "have sex" with my ex to smooth things out. He didn't seem to understand that I was being abused and had been for years and sex wasn't going to fix that. Besides I just couldn't be so emotionally & physically dishonest.
When I did bring up what had gone on between Yidwithlid and I -- he gave me MORALITY lectures as if I was the one who began this “affair.” It was upsetting, extremely confusing and now Yidwithlid was behaving as if it never happened and/or I was pushing him. Wait! He had been the one to say an affair would help us cope. And then he said "let's do it just once so we can feel it again with each other."
I didn't want to lose what I thought was a friendship and he professed to be paranoid about getting caught with me. Part of me was embarrassed and shamed. I blamed myself. So I went along with the "it never happened." I tried again repeatedly to get him to come meet my family, make each other part of our NORMAL lives - but there was no way. Yidwithlid just dug his feet in further that he "couldn't control [him]self" around me. (Still making it Target's fault when that was his intention all along!)
As someone raised by an abusive parent and in an abusive marriage then, I rationalized it. We are 'trained' to please and try to say "it must be us." I remembered him as a very sweet, quirky person in college. He had been one of the great loves of my life but I never chased him. Never. Things had happened back in college that made it very clear to me he didn't want me - and now here he'd been - on my computer, my lifeline out of my entrapment - talking about how I was wonderful. It was easy to be grateful for the attention and crumbs of friendship and rationalize away his inconsistencies as well as believe his explanations.
We continued talking for many months as just friends - WHICH WAS WHAT I WANTED ALL ALONG; though he would often throw sexual innuendo my way and how lonely and 'needy' he was - which confused me even more.
MORE TO COME!
yidwithlid
Yidwithlid / GRIDNEY's Target #1 tells the beginning of her story. We have added some portions from the numerous chats we received to emphasize what was going on and to further illustrate Yidwithlid's manipulative pattern. (remember: we do NOT SUBSTANTIVELY EDIT THE CHATS WE USE. We may delete for brevity, personal information or possibly sexually charged items. BUT WE DO NOT EDIT as it would be fraud to reproduce chats online that never occurred! Also, in this case - forensics had verified everything.)
Target #1 was extremely specific about what we could and couldn't use - including Yidwithlids real name, location or anything about his partner or family) Please take another look at the post on ONLINE SEDUCING this week. This predator is a prime example of that pickupguide.com, NLP seduction in action.
Again our comments are in dark blue.
________________________________
Target #1: I had known Yidwithlid for years. It never occured to me that someone would use my friendship to gain my trust and then BRAINWASH me. That's what my counselors told me over & over again - brainwash. I didn't believe it myself until after this was all over and therapists helped me dissect what had been done. Sometimes I still don't believe it.
Yidwithlid was unemployed at the time he contacted me (formerly a publisher of a national magazine) so had the time to IM me every day. I was surprised he remembered me.
"Target": Were you LOOKING for me on Classmates.com?
Yidwithlid: No
Yidwithlid: To be honest I was loking for someone else and saw your name.
Yidwithlid: So I paid and got your email (Yid currently alleges Target #1 has been 'stalking him for years' - here it is in his own words - THAT'S A LIE - HE FOUND HER!)
Yidwithlid: I never ever forgot you (sure he did! he forgot until he was bored and needed a free sexual target!)
"Target":Well, you had 27 years to contact me and didn't.
Yidwithlid: Life happens
Yidwithlid: I thoght [mutual friend] made you think I was a ***hole. (puts Target on the defensive)
"Target":no. but oddly enough, I thought he made you think I was a jerk too.
Yidwithlid: yeah? (notice he never really answers the above comment)
"Target": but you never got in touch with me.
Yidwithlid: you either with me
"Target": a lady doesnt' look up a man, even as friends
Yidwithlid: water under the bridge. I was young tryng to b macho
Yidwithlid: pulled back about my feelings and scared then
Yidwithlid: whenever I felt I was losing, I cold hear your vioce in my head.
Yidwithlid: you were always encoraging me
"Target": I am that way with everyone
Yidwithlid: I was a fool - you were wondrful
"Target": no I wasn't
We caught up, talked about our lives. Jobs, etc. He sent me loads of pictures of himself, his wife and his kids; which I now realize was sheer torture because eventually he refused to introduce me to them and make this normal - so if you don't want to be my real friend, why send all those pictures of his kids, family events? (purposely mixed messages to keep her off balance! additionally, he was getting off on withholding real friendship - which is what she wanted - thereby putting her in a corner where there was only ONE THING she could do with/ for him that he would accept. Complete mind- f**k)
I sent pics of my family but none of me. I had gained a lot of weight in the years since my kids were born - because of a serious health problems and medication. I never ever lied to Yidwithlid about my weight or my health though. Yidwithlid asked a lot about my health, what I was taking, my surgeries and so on. Just before he had emailed me I had been gravely ill with pneumonia. My marriage was over and I had been sleeping on the couch for years but trapped because I was so ill and broke. M ex-husband refused to do anything to end the marriage. I felt like an indentured servant. But I was NOT looking for a new man. I really didn't want any sort of relationship anymore.
Finally I sent Yidwithlid some pictures of myself and he said that basically I "looked the same" and he wasn't "one to judge" people by their looks. He told me that he "knew me better than that" and that my weight wasn't "what made [me] beautiful" to him. I laughed all this flattery off because I know what I look like. But he kept it up, and poured it on even more when he learned I was in the process of divorcing my husband. Little did I suspect I was being sized up and profiled!
"The perfect victim has some natural quality that attracts you. The strong emotions this quality inspires will help make your seductive maneuvers seem more natural and dynamic. The perfect victim allows for the perfect chase." -- Art of Seduction, Greene
Yidwithlid quickly initiated an emotional affair using our prior friendship as a springboard to gain my trust. He was extremely sympathetic about other abusive relationships I had been trapped in and my new internet “love” couldn’t have been nicer. He made himself my emotional lifeline.
Yidwithlid: Whatever happened betwen u & [mutual friend]
"Target #1": oh gosh
"Target #1": well he passed away a couple years ago
"Target #1": I cut the relationship off senior year of college
Yidwithlid: sorry to hear
"Target #1": don't be
Yidwithlid: I had no idea he died
"Target #1": yeah... it was sudden. He had undiagnosed cancer, caught up with him
Yidwithlid: oy
"Target #1": I couldn't go to the service tho
"Target #1": kids were small
"Target #1": and it felt hypocritical to go
Yidwithlid: what happened between you 2
Yidwithlid: were you sleeping with him?
"Target #1": beside the fact he was beating me up
"Target #1": and emotionally abusive to me
"Target #1": and scaring me
Yidwithlid: wow
Yidwithlid: he's the reason I left the colleg
"Target #1": I know
Yidwithlid: I was convinced he wanted me dead
"Target" #1: well he got close with me
"Target #1": broke my jaw - threw me into your old closet
Yidwithlid: oh my
"Target #1": yeah he was careful tho
"Target #1": and I stupidly coverd it all up - I was embarrassed
Yidwithlid: If I had been there I would have gone to the cops
"Target #1": right
"Target #1": back then no one did that Yidwithlid
"Target #1": besides you ran away
Yidwithlid: not fair (again puts her on the defensive)
"Target #1": sorry
Yidwithlid: I would never let anyone treat u like thta (though he's about to treat her like complete garbage and use her for just sex. But he paints himself as a "good guy" like they all do)
Yidwithlid: you wre somethng special ...still are
"Target #1": no Im not
Yidwithlid: someone should hold you all night
When Yidwithlid talked about the first time we were intimate I was shocked at the details he remembered Really minute details that guys usually don't. Then he told me I was his first; that he'd lost his virginity to me. I didn't believe it!! I brought it up NUMEROUS times after that and told him I still didn't believe it. He got very angry at me in subsequent questionings so I would stop asking. (Training/ grooming her not to question him!)
When his memories were skewed or completely in opposition to what I remembered I told him and he became very snippy and nasty. Sometimes he'd just withdraw. So I stopped arguing with him. I didn't want to lose my "someone to talk to." He had a lot of it very wrong but it seemed pointless to argue with him. I was abused as a child and arguing really triggers me. I was totally stunned by Yidwithlid in the first few months. He knocked me for a loop. He started talking about his feelings for me. I was shocked. But he continued on that he felt safe with me and wanted me back in his life. I thought fine, would be great to be friends. But he wanted more. He made it quite clear he had deep emotions for and "feelings" for me. He said it many times in many different ways as well as right out. The more he said it, the more I believed it and felt the same way. The more I let the old feelings I'd had for him surface.
About 4 weeks in we chatted until late one night and he plead his case for us to be "together" and how he couldn't control his desires for me much longer. I spent all weekend thinking about it and then, stupid me, I said "O.K." to a least the cybersex. He begged like a lost puppy who just wanted someone to love & care about him. I knew what it was like to be trapped with an abuser; and he portrayed his wife as a cold, pious woman who'd lost all interest in him - how their marriage was just going through the motions.
Learn to suggest the proper feelings and moods through details. -- Art of Seduction - Greene
As soon as I got comfortable with this, the love bombing began. He told me "we must have been together in a past life"... how we "had SO much in common"... that he was "sorry he didn't contact me sooner." I thought so too given the criteria he presented me. I had no clue then he was just eliciting values from me & mirroring me so it only 'seemed' that way.
He was online sometimes 2-3 times a day; saying he was looking for me. And often LATE into the night. He was quite blunt about his marriage being "unfulfilling." I would talk to him about having dialogue with his wife and how she worked and took care of his kids and she was probably tired. I told him this numerous times over the 2 years. He painted her as cold, distant and uncaring.
I was still teetering about any real sexual relationship - it felt wrong but my strength to resist was getting worn down by him. Yidwithlid cautiously asked me about sex at first. Yidwithlid made his wife sound very uptight. I asked him if she'd been abused or he was making her uncomfortable and was it always like that. Yidwithlid had a plausible answer for everything. Slowly but surely he was painting himself as an object to be pitied for putting up with this supposed 'ice princess' he was married to. But, I really did want to meet her. After seeing her picture I couldn't believe she was as Yidwithlid said she was. When I told him that he got VERY snarky so I stopped arguing about that too.
"It is important to start slowly, gaining their trust, and gradually constructing the fantasy that matches their desires. Aim at secret wishes that have been thwarted or repressed, stirring up uncontrollable emotions, clouding their powers of reason." --Art of Seduction, Greene
Then it happened (we have been asked not to publish this particular chat)-- one day about 11am, 4 weeks after Yidwithlid contacted me, we were chatting. I had a project going as editor & publisher of my children's preschool yearbook. I could do it at home on my own time but it was a big project. Chatting with him was a nice break. I happened to mention that my shoulders were tight from using a certain publishing software because it was so labor intensive. I will never forget it because I had NEVER EVER had cybersex and thought online dating was scary. In fact I just wanted no relationship at all anymore.
Yidwithlid started with "Imagine I am behind you rubbing your shoulders" I replied "aww, thanks." Then he started with "I rub down further..." I should have stopped and clicked off. Honestly I was so shocked I just sat there and watched as the words came up on the screen. I had the typical abused woman's "freeze reaction". Someone was crossing my boundary and I felt powerless.
I had NEVER had cybersex before ever. I made fun of people who did as being pathetic. I had NEVER done an online relationship as I thought it was dumb - besides legally I was still married. I am not a prude but this was just crazy, though with the 'disease to please' so many women have - I didn't want to say anything to Yidwithlid I still don't understand why I did it. (We know why - So does Sandra Brown, MA - it's the predator's mind control. Don't let ANYONE (especially The Cyberpath! tell you, you KNEW WHAT YOU WERE DOING! Or did so of 'your free will.' You didn't. They lured, seduced and manipulated you.)
"The women in our survey had high moral principles and an internal moral compass of right and wrong. Their moral sense and its relationship to a psychopath are quite interesting. Although many of them tested very high in the morality department, they ended up with the immoral and unprincipled psychopath.
"...his ability to pretend, allow him the stage to mimic [mirror] her moral principles in his life. Ironically, many of the women’s stories end with the loss of their moral principles in the relationship. This could be through sexual deviance he asked her to participate in, or asking that she lie, cheat, or in some other way violate her own moral code. By the end of the relationship, she was likely to have become mortified at his immoral behavior and how it took her down a negative path she never intended on.
Sandra Brown, MA - WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS
I just let him talk and yes, I participated. Yidwithlid did most of the typing. Yes, I went along. God forgive me, I don't really remember WHAT I was thinking or if I was thinking at all! In all honesty it always felt like I was in a fog or a trance. Afterward I said I had to go. I got up and went for a walk in the cold Spring air. I walked around the block and everything felt very unreal/ My brain and body were 'buzzing.' I came back, sat down and opened my online private journal and tried to wriie down how I was feeling. I didn't know what to think.
Without a doubt, one of the questions many women have is whether the psychopath was inducing trance, hypnosis, mind control, or used other forms of covert coercion. Many women ask this question because they acted contrary to their own relational histories with other men. Or, they felt heavily emotionally overpowered, trance-y, or spaced out through much of the relationship. So, does the psychopath have the ability to induce trance? The answer is yes.
The psychopath, like anyone else, can induce trance in others. Just surf the net under “Seduction Techniques” and you will see hundreds of web sites teaching men how to use covert hypnotic and Neuro Linguistic Programming techniques to bypass a woman’s cognitive resistance to being “picked up” or “seduced.” If they didn’t work, there wouldn’t be so many men using these techniques.
However, psychopath’s are different from these mere seduction students because most psychopaths don’t have to be taught how to use trance states, hypnosis, and suggestion. They are natural’s at these.
Sandra Brown, MA - WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS
In fact for the next 2 years I was so distracted, in a fog and mentally messed up I could barely function. This was helped along by Yidwithlid's obtuseness and infectiously addictive patterns. Later that day he apologized and said he wouldn't do it again. He said that I was "tempting" him because of his "feelings" for me. I told him:
"Target": you don't understand, I don't do things like that
Yidwithlid: me either
"Target": no I have never ever had cybersex
Yidwithlid: me either
"Target": you sounded like you knew what you were doing
Yidwithlid: I have an active imagnition (lie, he'd done it with online cyberbabes & phone sex operators many times as you will all find out)
Yidwithlid: sorry I am sooooo frustrated
Yidwithlid: if it bothers you I wont do it again
"Target": not sure how I feel about it
Yidwithlid: it wasnt without emotion you know
"Target": yeah me either
Yidwithlid: I wish it could be real
"Target": I am not sure you'd really want that
Yidwithlid: I am
"Target": I wish I could give you what you need but
Yidwithlid: I dont waqt to take, i want to SHARE
(remember that Online Seduction post? David Shade used the word SHARE on his targets a lot too!! Its an imbedded NLP - seduction trigger! - Fighter)
After that it happened again a couple days later. By now I was thinking it was safe. At least this was someone I knew, and I had been with him sexually years ago so I could trust him, right?
One Friday night he got online with me and I brought up that I was having conflicting feelings about it all. Even though my marriage was over and I was not with my ex-husband anymore - it still wasn't right. Yidwithlid agreed but then talked about how he "only wanted to make [me] feel good and happy" and again how it wasn't "without emotion" and he didn't "want to ruin" his marriage because his wife would "take the kids" from him. He repeatedly told me he had never ever done this before and it was something about ME and he was emotionally confused. (Of course that made the Target feel emotionally confused because he imbedded that thought! - Fighter)
I felt a lot of guilt mixed with excitement. (just what Yidwithlid wanted, as per ART OF SEDUCTION)
During that Friday night conversation he sent me a picture of himself naked in his office. NAKED. I asked him WHY he was in his home office naked with his kids down the hall? He said he was locked in. He liked to be naked to sleep and he was merely checking the job hunting sites before bed. He told me a few times over the next few days he "couldn't believe" he sent me a "naked picture of himself" and to "PLEASE DELETE!" I did. I was so embarrassed and stunned that he did that I didn't know what to say. Then he asked me how his **** looked! I just said "fine." I really didn't know what to say or do at that point. (Notice how he covertly & consistently made the Target feel it was her 'fault' for his boundary-less, perverted behavior? Pathological persons always do this - Fighter)
I wasn't aware that my ex-husband, in his need to control me, had been stealthily logging every email, IM, support board or word document I worked on for at least 11 months before Yidwithlid looked me up. My ex husband soon had every email, every divorce site I'd visited, all the work on my kids' yearbook, the disability advocacy boards I was on... you name it. It was all set up to be downloaded remotely to his computer at work where he would read it at his leisure. I am still not very technically astute - I had NO IDEA. (make a note of this one readers!)
The previous night where Yidwithlid had told me he still "cared" for me and wanted to have an affair - chat -- I still couldn't believe it. I was a mess.
...the key is to keep it vague. Dangle the prize before their eyes, postponing satisfaction, and let their minds do the rest. The future seems ripe with possibility. -- Art of Seduction, Greene
We had some cybersex for the next 8-10 weeks or so along with chatting. He told me I made him "feel like Stanley Kowalski" (from STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE) and he couldn't believe how just seeing me online "turned [him] on" and how he was "struggling with his old feelings for" me. The big one he said over & over was how he couldn't control himself with me ("CONTROL" - another imbedded NLP command designed to put him IN CONTROL and per her OUT OF CONTROL!) For someone as starved for any positive attention, now I was being drowned in it by someone I knew and felt very comfortable with. I see now, it was a purposeful, emotional jackhammer to my brain & my common sense.
I apologized over and over. (He'd made Target feel guilty! ) Yidwithlid started to make me sound like some sort of cyber-temptress who had pushed him over the edge. Sounds stupid in retrospect. And definitely wrong! Mostly I would talk about our kids, the weather, family - anything else. I kept requesting to meet his wife & kids hoping it would cool him off. Many times there were huge time gaps in the chats before he'd answer me. Or I would see on IM that he was 'typing' but nothing came up on my screen. He told me he was writing an article or a letter or resume. (We bet he was pacing the chat, establishing a rhythm which helps embed the triggers. And surfing for other chicks, contacting Target #1s friends using HER GOOD WORDS to seduce them and doing online porno!)
Finally I told him to slow down, I wanted lunch or coffee with him, a face to face, in order to catch up. “You’re moving too fast,” I told him. One evening we had a very intense conversation. Yidwithlid told me he wanted to rent a hotel room for a day for us to be together for "real" and that he couldn't take it anymore.
Yidwithlid: thougt about you today
"Target": oh!
Yidwithlid:I imagine you in your robe with ****************
"Target": (blushing)
Yidwithlid: I want to touch you
Yidwithlid: feel you all over
Yidwithlid: I want you to make me remember
"Target": this is insane
Yidwithlid:I know
Yidwithlid:i soooo want to share with u
"Target": No. I just don't do this sort of thing
Yidwithlid:me either
Yidwithlid: back in college I didn't get naked with just anyone
"Target": neither did I
Yidwithlid: I still trust you
Yidwithlid: I have to ***** a couple times a day just thinkng abot u
"Target": I think your having some memory lapses
"Target": what about your wife, this isnt right (watch as Yidwithlid totally evades this one)
Yidwithlid: wish i'd known we flet this way 26 years ago
"Target": omg
Yidwithlid: dont u feel that way too
"Target": yes i guess
Yidwithlid: something deeper than either of us have ever known
Yidwithlid: maybe being with you - can belp uis both cope
"Target": honestly, I would ...
Yidwithlid: really
"Target": yes
Yidwithlid: yes?
Yidwithlid: but?
"Target": but.... im still married legally and so are you
"Target": this is too odd
"Target": I want to give you my address and phone and meet your family
Yidwithlid: no dont
Yidwithlid: I will do somethng stupid if u do
"Target": and you meet mine
Yidwithlid: dunno
Yidwithlid: dunno if I could handle
Yidwithlid: please let me touch you
Yidwithlid: feel you
Yidwithlid: I want you so bad... you..
[Yidwithlid starts cybersex here]
....as if you and your target were destined to become acquainted - nothing is more seductive than a sense of destiny. Lull the target into feeling secure, then strike. -- Art of Seduction, Greene
Yidwithlid began pushing to meet me at a hotel right away but I told him no. Then Yidwithlid started with "let's do it just one time so we don't get caught." Once I said no and I couldn't do it - then he steadfastly refused to see me at all! I realize now even when he wrote me he had NO INTENTION of seeing me or being a real friend. Then I got so upset over angering Yidwithlid I recanted and said ok - and even pushed him to do it! My therapist tells me I was set up.
When I said NO the first time, he DISAPPEARED OFFLINE for 5 weeks. I was nuts - I thought he'd been in an accident. I was half out of my mind with worry. It was about then I told my best friend. I HAD to tell someone. When I saw him again online I asked him:
"Target": "where have you been?
Yidwithlid: around
"Target": I was worried
Yidwithlid :dont be
Yidwithlid: with kids, playing golf
Yidwithlid: I am fine
Pain and anxiety are the proper precursors to pleasure. Learn to manufacture the need that you can fill. - Art of Seduction, Greene
Later in the same chat he says:
Yidwithlid: I have decided
Yidwithlid: we can't be together for real
Yidwithlid: it would be wrong
Yidwithlid: i woud have tomake decisions about [my wife]
Yidwithlid: it would hurt both of us (wait... HE decided? didn't she just say NO in a prior chat? Wow - talk about CONTROL)
"Target": do you even still have feelings
Yidwithlid: YES
Yidwithlid: but maybe we are jut two lonely people looking to connect
"Target": so you don't feel the same way, you've changed your mind?
Yidwithlid: but I don't do thinghs like that (He doesn't even ANSWER her)
"Target": I am confused
Yidwithlid: you had the prettiest ******* ever (He just changes direction and by now he's got her used to it!)
Yidwithlid: they were always my favrite
"Target": but things have changed - I have had a lot of surgery - lots of weight from medication. This isn't right.
Yidwithlid: I bet they haven't
"Target": they have
Yidwithlid: I bet you are wrong
........
"Send mixed signals: both tough and tender, both spiritual and earthy, both innocent and cunning. A mix of qualities suggests depth, which fascinates even as it confuses. An elusive, enigmatic aura will make people want to know more, drawing them into your circle. Create such a power by hinting at something contradictory within you." - The Art of Seduction, Greene
Yidwithlid then disappeared for another week. When he came back he started up the cybersex again saying it was "the only safe way [we] can be together." He found work shortly thereafter. I kept asking him if we could have lunch, say hi - anything to make this something more normal. I just wanted the chaos & confusion to stop without lecturing him. And even though I was 10 minutes from his office he kept telling me he “couldn’t control himself” around me. It was one excuse after another. I was scared I would lose the person I thought was my friend if I didn't go along with him. And I was too weak to stand up and just say "no." (Yidwithlid used the words SHARE and CAN'T CONTROL repeatedly in these chats - part of the mental programming & mind control)
"Behave in a way that leaves them wondering, What are you up to? Doing something they do not expect from you will give them a delightful sense of spontaneity-they will not be able to foresee what comes next."
"Create a sublanguage-bold statements followed by retraction and apology, ambiguous comments, banal talk combined with alluring glances-that enters the target's unconscious to convey your real meaning. Make everything suggestive. -- Art of Seduction, Greene
The "no lunch” but" meet me in a hotel,” had confused me, especially since he had convinced me we were “falling for each other”. (In a number of chats he told his target something to the effect of: 'You KNOW me, I wouldn't toy with you or hurt you.')
I left for a 6 week vacation with my kids then. In retrospect it was odd that he didn't seem to care I was going away. Yidwithlid and I chatted a couple times while I was there but he never said he missed me. Why would he? Nothing had changed for him - still online friend only! We had more chats where I urged him to work on his marriage and he now started pushing me to give my husband another chance. Yidwithlid didn't seem to grasp that I was leaving a serious abuser. In fact, he seemed relieved I was out of town. More putting me in cyber-reality only. Yidwithlid kept giving me advice as if my divorce was based on minor disagreements. (because cyberpaths are petty)
Yes, I vented to him. Almost like he wanted to offload my emotions for him back onto my ex-husband. I realize now he was looking to validate his LACK of empathy and at the same time INVALIDATE my feelings about my marriage being over. (and Target #1 REPEATEDLY asked him to TALK TO HIS WIFE & possibly get marriage counseling. REPEATEDLY she defended his wife, whom he smears her to later)
When I came back Yidwithlid used a lot of “confusing talk” with me and then played dumb. He would twist things, making it seem like I was acting overbearing and aggressive when he had initiated and encouraged my interest. (Readers, just to say again, the chat transcripts verify all the assertions here - EOPC)
Here's a couple things he did that were very odd, now that I think about it:
Yidwithlid elicited more sympathy from me by saying that ADHD was his "problem" and using that to explain all his odd behavior. In many of our chats he seemed severely depressed. He told me he went to therapy and was on an antidepressant (called them his "happy pills") Then he joked about his Viagra. This he needed, he said, because his wife was so cold. He shared these things with me not as “sob stories”, but as one old friend telling another the truth about how their life had turned out. (Victim had NO IDEA she was being played!)
-- I was having one of my children who is learning challenged, tested. Yidwithlid told me the alleged name of a good book on ADHD (ADHD runs in his family). I looked on Amazon.com and a couple other sources but no such book existed. When I called him on it a couple days later he seemed VERY annoyed and insisted the book existed though he couldn't tell me the author, ISBN or anything else. I realize a publisher deals with the advertising but he was just lying for no real reason.
-- Yidwithlid gave me the name of the 'BEST' behavioral doctor in the area (we live an hour apart) and even said he would 'BRB' while he said he went to his wife's home office to look for the number. He told me one of his children went to this doctor. He was gone close to 40 minutes. When he came back he said he'd be a "dead puppy" if he touched the piles on his wife's desk and couldn't find it. So I called around - the hospital this doctor was supposedly affliated with, the AMA, a number of places. I even asked one of my physicians who is on the board at a major metropolitan hospital and none of his sources knew of ANY doctor by that name. Yidwithlid had given me a name of someone who didn't exist. It should have been a major red flag - and frankly I still can't figure out WHY he did it. He probably was off doing something else completely. (in a porn chat? talking to his other women?)
-- Yidwithlid told me not to IM him first ever. The couple times I did he was curt and rude - telling me I interrupted him. I have bad reactions to being 'yelled at' because of past abuse so I never did it again. Yidwithlid did finally take my phone number but was constantly "misplacing" it. He only seemed to want it for phone sex. Another big red flag.
"Play the victim, then transform your target's sympathy into love." Art of Seduction, Greene
As I said before estranged husband hacked files off my computer regarding this emotional affair. My ex had everything. Copies were with his attorney and the attorney I saw gave me copies too. Everyone had seen it all. Even Yidwithlid's address, phone numbers and work addresses!
The verbal abuse from my ex escalated towards me and the children. My ex had everything I was doing. Even this. I was pushed around and called names in front of my children. I felt I deserved it because I felt guilty. My estranged husband was determined to go to Yidwithlid's house and talk to his wife. My ex even said he went to his office a couple times but just stood in the lobby and thought better of it. I begged him not to and my ex used my promises against me for months after. Because of my feelings for Yidwithlid, I defended him - as I would for anyone I felt genuinely close to. (Readers, do you think Yidwithlid APPRECIATED ANY OF THIS?)
Sharing my predicament with Yidwithlid, his 'supportive' response was to distance himself for weeks. (Nice NOT!) When he contacted me again, it was as if the emotional stuff & cybersex between us NEVER happened. What the heck? I went back to therapy and got on antidepressants because my head felt literally foggy, like there was a fuzzy blanket over my brain.(covert brainwashing symptom!)
Simply it had all become too much for me. Yidwithlid was very upset to hear my ex-husband I weren't back together and told me to "have sex" with my ex to smooth things out. He didn't seem to understand that I was being abused and had been for years and sex wasn't going to fix that. Besides I just couldn't be so emotionally & physically dishonest.
"if we cant b together we might as well be with our spouses, no matter how bad that is - Yidwithlid." (More invalidation!)
When I did bring up what had gone on between Yidwithlid and I -- he gave me MORALITY lectures as if I was the one who began this “affair.” It was upsetting, extremely confusing and now Yidwithlid was behaving as if it never happened and/or I was pushing him. Wait! He had been the one to say an affair would help us cope. And then he said "let's do it just once so we can feel it again with each other."
I didn't want to lose what I thought was a friendship and he professed to be paranoid about getting caught with me. Part of me was embarrassed and shamed. I blamed myself. So I went along with the "it never happened." I tried again repeatedly to get him to come meet my family, make each other part of our NORMAL lives - but there was no way. Yidwithlid just dug his feet in further that he "couldn't control [him]self" around me. (Still making it Target's fault when that was his intention all along!)
As someone raised by an abusive parent and in an abusive marriage then, I rationalized it. We are 'trained' to please and try to say "it must be us." I remembered him as a very sweet, quirky person in college. He had been one of the great loves of my life but I never chased him. Never. Things had happened back in college that made it very clear to me he didn't want me - and now here he'd been - on my computer, my lifeline out of my entrapment - talking about how I was wonderful. It was easy to be grateful for the attention and crumbs of friendship and rationalize away his inconsistencies as well as believe his explanations.
Additionally, suggestibility is related to poor memory recall which in the women is likely to begin happening in the relationship due to stress, fatigue, and trance.
The women are likely to become more suggestible as the relationship continues on, because of the confusion created by the psychopath’s lying, cheating, and the psychopath's dichotomous behavior. As she thinks her mind is beginning to play tricks on her (as the psychopath encourages her to believe), the more suggestible she will become. When he tells her she didn’t see, hear, or experience something, she will likely believe it.
Sandra Brown, MA - WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS
We continued talking for many months as just friends - WHICH WAS WHAT I WANTED ALL ALONG; though he would often throw sexual innuendo my way and how lonely and 'needy' he was - which confused me even more.
MORE TO COME!
yidwithlid
Monday, June 04, 2007
GRIDNEY/ YidwithLid Starts Moving In Closer
Here's Yidwithlid (aka - his old nickname: "GRIDNEY") starting to circle the wagons by moving in on Target #1 with flattery for her already-damaged-by-abuse ego
(Cyberpaths do this and the target never even knows what hit them)
FROM April 2002
"Target #1": I am really surprised you even remember me
Yidwithlid: how could I forget
"Target #1": well, you could have looked me up years ago - or kept in touch
Yidwithlid: I thoght [mutual friend] made you think I was a jerk
"Target #1": thats funny
"Target #1": [mutual friend] told me you didn't even like me much because I wasn't Jewish
Yidwithlid: oy
"Target #1": hmmmm interesting
Yidwithlid: ya, he was interested in you for himself
"Target #1": but u introduced us. I thought you were trying to get rid of me
Yidwithlid:no
"Target #1": I told you he beat me - after you left. He was mad that we'd... ya know
"Target #1": you avoided me like the plague
Yidwithlid: I am nt very forwrd about my emotions
Yidwithlid: in college was trying to be macho nd cool
"Target #1": seemed more like go away to me
Yidwithlid: no Im pulled back with my feelngs
Yidwithlid: I was stupd
Yidwithlid: can I tell you something
"Target #1": sure
Yidwithlid: you were the most talented person I ever workd with
"Target #1": really? Oh come on.
Yidwithlid: yes really
Yidwithlid: when we were in theatre - I could tell, you were relluy feeling it all
Yidwithlid: for me it was just going throgh the motiohns
Yidwithlid: i couldn't feel (REMEMBER he said this!)
Yidwithlid: you were exceptionjal
"Target #1": wow thnaks
Yidwithlid: you are welcome
Yidwithlid: you taught me a lot
"Target #1": yeah like RUN AWAY!! She's coming LOL
Yidwithlid: no
Yidwithlid: can I tell you something and you wont get freaked out?
"Target #1": depends
Yidwithlid: you were the first woman I was ever with
"Target #1": no way
"Target #1": you mean girl don't you
Yidwithlid: yes
Yidwithlid: no I mena WOMAN
"Target #1": I don't believe it
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